17-Oct-93  00:07:28
Sb: The Shield
Fm: Kevin 
To: ALL

All around people laugh and talk freely.  Sitting among them I wish to join in
but I am blocked by an invisible shield.  I cannot go around, under, or over
it.  It has existed for as long as I can remember.  It is so much a part of me
I find it not wanting to go away.  It keeps me apart from others even if I am
talking to them.  I talk to a woman I like but the shield prevents me from
getting to really talk with her.  To simply ask to go out on a date is
impossible due.

It frustrates and angers me that I remain so locked up!  How can I find others
if I can't leave my prison?  I beat on it to relaese me but I can't shut off
the power to it.  I can't even really open up in this forum!

I know part of me keeps the shield up but as I try to deal with it to bring it
down it still remains.  I yearn to go forward and experience new things but
again the shield preceeds me and stops me at my heart.  It hurts so deeply!
It is so lonely inside here!

Kevin

Fm: :: Neil :: 
To: Kevin 

Kevin,

>>I can't even really open up in this forum!<<

I think you just did.  Okay, maybe not as much as you might like, but it's not
easy to post what you did.  You shared a lot about yourself.

Maybe to a lesser extent, but I feel the way you do sometimes.  It's the
feeling that in the whole world, or whatever part of the world I happen to be
in at the time, everyone knows everybody else, except I don't know them and
they don't know me.

Can you tell us more about yourself: how old you are, if you work, where you
went/go to school, etc.?


Neil

Fm: Kevin 
To: :: Neil :: 

Neil:

<<<Can you tell us more about yourself: how old you are, if you work, where
you went/go to school, etc.?>>>

Well, I am 26 yrs old, I work for the Walt Disney Resort in Orlando, Fla., I
am not currently in school but I am looking into the possibilities for it next
fall.  I am also a writer on the side.  I just recently sent out some stories
to a couple of magazines.  I train in the Martial Arts for exercise and
physical fitness.  Pretty much an individualists lifestyle.  I like simple
tastes and the company of interesting people.  Yet I find it doesn't go much
past that for me.

I have gone out to social gatherings in the past but I never really feel like
I am doing anything worthwhile.  I feel like just an object with no reason
other than to take up space.

Kevin

Fm: :: Neil :: 
To: Kevin 

Kevin,

>>I work for the Walt Disney Resort in Orlando<<

Wow... my son would kill for a job with Disney!  What do you do there?

>>I am also a writer on the side.<<

Oh yeah, what sort of things do you write?

>>I like simple tastes and the company of interesting people. Yet I find it
doesn't go much past that for me.<<

Do you find that when you meet *interesting people*, neither of you takes the
next step?  Is it possible that you are meeting people who feel the same way
you do, but can't break through their own shields?


Neil

Fm: Kevin 
To: :: Neil :: 

Neil:

<<<Wow... my son would kill for a job with Disney!  What do you do there?>>>

I work in the Custodial Department at Epcot Center.  Kill for a job
there...unless your son is mega hooked on Disney and worships them, he will
find it is just a job like any other.  I have been employed there eight years
and behind the scenes reality is much different than on stage illusion.

[[>>I am also a writer on the side.<<

Oh yeah, what sort of things do you write?]]

Science Fiction and General Fiction are my two areas.  Just two weeks ago, I
sent out two manuscripts to perspective magazines.  Will know in 6-10 weeks
whether or not they are accepted.

<<<Do you find that when you meet *interesting people*, neither of you takes
the next step?  Is it possible that you are meeting people who feel the same
way you do, but can't break through their own shields?>>>

It is me who doesn't have the ability to break through.  I wouldn't know if
the other is interested because my shield remains in the way and nothing
further developes.

Kevin

Fm: :: Neil :: 
To: Kevin 

Kevin,

>>... behind the scenes reality is much different than on stage illusion.<<

Yeah, that could describe a lot of situations in life.  A lot of things look
good from the outside looking in, but not visa versa.

>>Will know in 6-10 weeks whether or not they are accepted.<<

Okay, we'll be patient; but let us know what happens.


Neil

Fm: Kevin 
To: :: Neil :: 

Neil:

<<<Okay, we'll be patient; but let us know what happens>>>

It is the normal turn around time frame for any submission.  In the meantime I
am going ahead with other writing projects for future submission.  When I know
something, I will let you and others who are interested know as well.

<<<A lot of things look good from the outside looking in, but not visa
versa.>>>

It is the story with so many things in life.  I was comepletely held back by
illusions others created and passed off as reality.  It is one reason I have
been so poor in dealing with relationships.  Everyone always started the
approach with the go get em macho attitude style.  If I didn't approach a
woman as they thought I should I was immediately put into the wimp wringer and
classified as a nobody.  This is the attitude so many people see and are
taught is the manly way to get what you want.

Kevin

Fm: :: Neil :: 
To: Kevin 

Kevin,

>>If I didn't approach a woman as they thought I should I was immediately put
into the wimp wringer and classified as a nobody.<<

Ah, peer pressure.  Where you can't be yourself if you want to be popular. So
you're forced to try and be what you're not.  When that doesn't work, your
self esteem is bruised, and you haven't gained any experience being yourself.
Maybe you should remember that what failed wasn't your approach, it was
*their's*.


Neil

Fm: Kevin 
To: :: Neil :: 

Neil:

<<<Maybe you should remember that what failed wasn't your approach, it was
*their's*.>>>

Yes, but since I have no other experience, I don't have the confidence to
approach woman as myself.

Kevin

Fm: :: Neil :: 
To: Kevin 

Kevin,

>>Yes, but since I have no other experience, I don't have the confidence to
approach woman as myself.<<

The only way to get experience is, well, you know.

Set some realistic goals for yourself.  Try pushing your personal limit just a
little bit at a time.  Go for some small wins and build a base of experiences
for yourself.


Neil

Fm: :: Marc B. :: 
To: Kevin 

Dear Kevin,

Congrats!! I think you opened up pretty well about yourself and I hope that
Shyness will further help you to understand more about your shyness.

You posted a great message and I like the title, the shield. I know what
you're talking about. The kind of feeling that keeps you sitting in a corner
at a party, where everybody else seems to have big fun! And to be honest, I
can't tell you anythig about how to overcome tht feeling as I still experience
it, even on parties where I know some people. And I don't have much of
alternatives.
I think some people might just not fit into that scenario of socialiszing and
I'm one of that. I'm a lot better if I meet somebody new on a dinner with
friends or on the working place, where there are things to talk about without
any complications to go through first. Also interest groups could be a good
starting point.

But of course, you have to get up and do something. I know that it isn't easy
and I can't tell you how to do it, 'cause I'm still insecure if I have figured
out how to do it. Knowing that there is such a shield is defenitly a first
step, you know your enemy and you can now learn about it and hopefully find a
way to overcome the shield.
That is nothing that will happen fast and waiting alone will not bring you
there either. You will have to try and learn from your failures. Experience
seem to be the only key here.

>>I feel like just an object with no reason other than to take up space.<<

Well, unless you make a difference, that will jsut remain the same. People
don't think about their guests needs, when inviting them, so you will have to
learn to get to the things that interest you, nobod will dod that for you!

If you ever have any questions or made experiences that need to be talked
about, please feel invited to post here as often as you feel like it!

Welcome to the Workshop!!

                      Multimegamediahugs

Fm: Kevin 
To: :: Marc B. :: 

Marc:

<<<I think some people might just not fit into that scenario of socialiszing
and I'm one of that.>>>

We are in the same boat.  I would like to socialize more but everytime I do I
get the feeling I am just not interesting enough for one to talk too.  I try
to start converstaions but I can't even keep anyone interested very long.
They eventually move on to another person.

<<<Well, unless you make a difference, that will jsut remain the same. People
don't think about their guests needs, when inviting them, so you will have to
learn to get to the things that interest you, nobod will dod that for you!>>>

True but I find at parties that most conversation is on a general fun topic
which is spontaneous.  I get into a conversation and get to serious others
loose interest.  Or if I try to be humorous I am looked at as just a fool who
runs his mouth.

I know it will be my effort that pervails and that I must go out and dive at
the opportunities.  I just don't have the outgoing personality needed for
social interaction.

In simple terms, I never learned how to have fun.

Hugs,

Kevin

Fm: :: Polly :: 
To: Kevin 

Kevin,

>> I get into a conversation and get to serious others loose interest. Or if I
try to be humorous I am looked at as just a fool who runs his mouth. <<

       Hmmm, have people actually told you that they are uninterested, or that
you are a "fool?"  Could it be that you are judging yourself and assuming that
others are coming to the same conclusion?  Remember that most people aren't
really out there to judge you, they are feeling many of the same things that
you are feeling.

       If you're quiet, Kevin, you're quiet!  That's all; it isn't any more or
any less.  You have told us that you have the ability to be serious and the
ability to be funny; you have shown us that you know how to communicate. You
have all the ingredients except the belief that you're just fine the way you
are.

>> I try to start converstaions but I can't even keep anyone interested very
long. They eventually move on to another person. <<

       That's the way parties work, isn't it?  People "mix," they move from
one conversation to another, and follow up at another occasion with someone
they find particularly interesting.  Please don't see it as a rejection when
the person might be thinking "I wish I could stay longer, but I'm being rude
by not talking to others."

       I don't have too many problems in social situations; my timidity is
more in other areas, but I do know *very* well the assumption that others are
judging me.  It's a really hard one to overcome.  It helps me somewhat to try
to stay conscious of what is happening and to ask myself whether I'm reacting
to what I really see or to what I assume.  Can you reevaluate some of your
situations and see whether they might be something other than people walking
away because they think you boring or inappropriate?

Polly

Fm: Kevin 
To: :: Polly :: 

Polly:

<<<Hmmm, have people actually told you that they are uninterested, or that you
are a "fool?"  Could it be that you are judging yourself and assuming that
others are coming to the same conclusion?>>>

Yes, in many instances that is exactly what they say.  But they come around
again and the same thing keeps happening in a circle.  And if I end leaving
the social gathering I am asked why did I leave and say I am not social
enough.  I can only judge myself from past experiences and at this point it is
the conclusion I am coming up with.

<<<You have all the ingredients except the belief that you're just fine the
way you are.>>>

Seems my ingredients don't make a good mixture.  I have never been good at
believing things since the way I am doesn't seem to be helping me in
relationships.

<<<Can you reevaluate some of your situations and see whether they might be
something other than people walking away because they think you boring or
inappropriate?>>>

I have done many evaluations of situations. Yet when dealing with people who
are all different in how they react I can't really make a good evaluation that
would help me.

Kevin

Fm: :: Polly :: 
To: Kevin 

Kevin,

     Anyone who told you that you were uninteresting or a fool is not only a
fool him or herself, but rude!  I certainly wouldn't want to be associated
with people who act in the way you describe.  Why are you buying into their
unwarranted and unkind evaluations?  I'm really angry just reading about this!

     Kevin *you* are the person who knows you best.  You seem to be doing fine
here, why would you discard this experience in favor of those idiots who don't
even know how to talk to another person?

Hugs,

Polly

Fm: :: Marc B. :: 
To: Kevin 

Kevin,

I see that parties are not your kind of "territory". <smile> But it is a place
where one can get introduced to others, no? All my SOs have been introduced to
me by friends and some had to be pretty patient until I showed reaction.

How do you feel on parties where you know a lot people? Or smaller invitations
..for a dinner or so? Did you ever thought about inviting a few friends
yourself?

You see, I try to figure out in what kind of "social environment" you are.
<smile>

>>I would like to socialise more but every time I do I get the feeling I am
just not interesting enough for one to talk too.  I try to start conversations
but I can't even keep anyone interested very long.<<

Well, one thing that you can do, is to show interest in what other people are
doing, their job, spare time activities or to talk about "casual" things, like
Music "been to the XY Concert?" etc., Arts as well. If a person doesn't show
any interest in what you tell, neither is willing to say something on her own,
she very likely either got nothing to say or don't like you for any reason
beyond your reach. <smile>

Humour is a very strange thing, dear. My.. I can tell. In high school they
said "Attention: Marc tells us a joke", and of course NEVER laughed. On the
other side good friends of me sometimes think I'm terribly funny. I find most
anything funny, I even sometimes laugh when no other person see anything
funny. (which can be embarrassing, I tell you <g>)
All I can say is, if humour is not your territory, then don't try to be funny.
I made the experience that women often appreciate to have a serious
conversation if you find a topic of shared interests.

>>In simple terms, I never learned how to have fun.<<

Now that is serious matter. Really never? You have no idea what fun is? That
is hard to believe. You never make angels in the snow? OK, I know there's no
snow now, how about angles in the mud? Hmmm .. OK, I see this is not
appropriate, the cleaning wouldn't be fun, would it? But serious, what do you
mean with that line?

Oh, yes.. about the quality you desire, but can't name. Why not have an open
mind and let them surprise you?


                      Multimegamediahugs

PS: Did I made THAT many typos? Gee, hope nobody else recognised. <g>

Fm: Kevin 
To: :: Marc B. :: 

Marc:

<<<How do you feel on parties where you know a lot people? Or smaller
invitations ..for a dinner or so? Did you ever thought about inviting a few
friends yourself?>>>

I don't have anything to offer those who come over.  I can't cook, I am very
bad at entertaining others (which you probably already can tell).

<<<You see, I try to figure out in what kind of "social environment" you are.
<smile><<<

As you can probably tell so far, I have no social environment at all.

<<<Now that is serious matter. Really never? You have no idea what fun is?
That is hard to believe. You never make angels in the snow? OK, I know there's
no snow now, how about angles in the mud? Hmmm .. OK, I see this is not
appropriate, the cleaning wouldn't be fun, would it? But serious, what do you
mean with that line?>>>

Just what it says.  And this requires a little background explanation.  When I
was growing up and in high school, having a social life meant following the
crowd.  Alot of times, they did things I didn't care to do or my parents would
prevent me.  My parents always making decisions for me.  They would tell me to
get out with friends and when I did they would go out and chase me down
telling me to get home.  If I tried to get invovled with something they either
controled in or just plain shut it down.  I had no maoney to go anywhere and
had to rely on them for everything.  So I never learned how to have fun
because they always altered the meaning of fun.  Sounds kinda strange, but I
hope it answers your question?

>>>PS: Did I made THAT many typos? Gee, hope nobody else recognised. <g><<<

I didn't recognized many myself!  <G>

Hugs (not as mega as your but means the same)

Kevin

Fm: :: Marc B. :: 
To: Kevin 

Kevin,

You don't need to be able to offer a lot to invite people. If you can't cook,
either order from a party service or make a chinese fondue.
(You can ask me for a "recipe" for chinese fondue if you have no idea. <g>)
In fact there are a lot of "foods" that you can serve without any knowledge
about cooking and I'm sure, if we ask around here, the HSXers will come up
with many good ideas.
Basically what you need for an invitation is: enough chairs and enough people
to invite. (enough people is anything from one to many) ..oh yes, and you
should be able to afford it.

Now if you have no social environment, that means some work.. and work is where
you can start building one. What are your interests? There are clubs and
groups for almost any kind of interest, why not joining one (or test some)?
Well, for some people, even HSX has worked. Especially on-line chatting could
be a way for you to get new friends, if you can affoard it that is. (make sure
to use 300 baud as it's cheaper and fast enough for chatting!) In any way, you
have to get up and do something, even if you don't believe it, YOU HAVE
something to offer and I'm sure there are people who would like to get known
to you!

You answered my questions about not knowing how to have fun and I think you're
only problem is that you're not used to have fun. I bet, if you get the right
kind of friends around you, you'll have no problem to have fun!

                      Multimegamediahugs

Fm: Jim P 
To: Kevin 

Kevin,

  The Shield has been familiar to me for as long as I can remember, almost an
essential part of my identity.  It is a refuge and a curse.  I want it to be
there, and I don't.  In every situation, I soon stand out as "the silent one."
Laughing and talking freely, the chit-chat in social situations, that seems to
come effortlessly to others, remains a deep mystery to me.  (Even this short
message is the result of a long process of thinking, composing and revision.)
I used to think there was a connection between high intelligence and social
backwardness, but few of the people I've met in Mensa seem to fit the "nerd"
stereotype (but then I'm only meeting the ones who bother to attend social
activities in the first place.)  I have little trouble carrying out the
ordinary business of everyday life - ordering a pizza, getting my car fixed,
helping people with their computer problems - but there is a sharp distinction
between "business" and "personal."  Only a very few have gotten through the
shield. Maybe it is like a door that has to be opened from both inside and
outside--two locks, and I only have the key to one.

Jim

Fm: Kevin 
To: Jim P 

Jim:

<<<I have little trouble carrying out the ordinary business of everyday life -
ordering a pizza, getting my car fixed, helping people with their computer
problems - but there is a sharp distinction between "business" and "personal."
Only a very few have gotten through the shield. Maybe it is like a door that
has to be opened from both inside and outside--two locks, and I only have the
key to one.>>>

Pretty much the same story with me.  I can take care of my business dealings
but in personal issues I am walking without an understanding.  Perhaps we need
to find that special someone who has the other key.  But once they open the
door will it be worth leaving?

Kevin

Fm: :: Marc B. :: 
To: Kevin 

>>Perhaps we need to find that special someone who has the other key.  But
once they open the door will it be worth leaving?<<

Kevin,

I'm not sure if I understood that. You seem to hope that someday a nice woman
will come and pull you out of your shell? And you wonder if such a woman would
think you're worth the effort? Or do you wonder if such a woman would be good
enough for you? In any case, seems a bit weird to me. Would you reject a woman
based on the fact that she thinks you're interesting?

I have a friend who thought he's as ugly and as not interesting as possible.
In fact he's a nice and charming guy, if he ever drops his inhibitions. But he
didn't had any confidence in himself. Surprisingly there were a few women
interested in him in the past years and some even got very close to him. But
no relationship lastet more then a few weeks. It was a few months after he
again failes, that I met his ex-SO on a party and she asked me a thousand
questions about him. If he's doing ok, if he found someone that's able to make
him happy and wipe away his fears. I only knew her from his description and
the person I now talked to what nothing of that at all. I then realised that
he can't believe that any valuable person can fall in love with him and if a
woman does, therefor she must be not valuable.

Well, the two are now together for several months and he's learning to
overcome his inhibitions, but as she tells me, he still "leaves her" every two
weeks. <g>

                      Multimegamediahugs

Fm: Kevin 
To: :: Marc B. :: 

Marc:

<<<I'm not sure if I understood that. You seem to hope that someday a nice
woman will come and pull you out of your shell? And you wonder if such a woman
would think you're worth the effort? Or do you wonder if such a woman would be
good enough for you? In any case, seems a bit weird to me. Would you reject a
woman based on the fact that she thinks you're interesting?>>>

What I mean by the statement "Perhaps we need to find that special someone who
has the other key.  But once they open the door will it be worth leaving" is
that I seem to need a woman I can connect with in some way to take the chance.
A woman who has a special quality I like.  Only I don't know what that special
quality is that I desire.

Hugs,

Kevin

Fm: Clifford C. 
To: Jim P 

 >> Laughing and talking freely, the chit-chat in social situations, that
 >> seems to come effortlessly to others, remains a deep mystery to me.

 If I may offer some of my own viewpoints on this?  I currently experience a
 lot of difficulty, as you do, in social situations, never knowing what to say
 or do, stuttering and mumbling if I do scrape up the courage, and generally
 feeling rather bufoonish.  But once I had the chance to talk at length to a
 few social gadflys whom I admired, and found out that their ability to engage
 in small talk is just another type of shield, and a quite effective one too-
 because if you wish, you can fend off uncomfortable questions or observations
 easily.  Break through their shield, though, and you end up with scared
 people, just like me or you; but more defenseless, since they usually have
 been avoiding their feelings by covering themselves with their pretty
shields.
 I've been trying to use the 'new kind of shield' idea to bolster my
confidence
 and get myself involved in social affairs, etc. and have experienced some
 awkward success.  Maybe the idea can work for you.