(:: Polly :: <host>) Lars, this is the "Going it Alone" series.  We'll 
                     be talking about "Sex in the Office" i.e., relationships 
                     at work.
(Lars) thanks Polly..."sex in the office" eh....
(Lars) well I'll tell you there are a few women in my office I would 
        certainly like to have but, being married, one can only think of it. 
        (nothing wrong with a little daytime-work-fantasizing.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Is the fact that you're married the only thing that 
                    would stop you, Lars?
(Lars) ) Oh yes...I think so. Well, or in a good relationship...
         that would stop me as well.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Hmmm, does anyone here think that a sexual 
                    relationship at work is something to think twice about?
(Becca) Oh god, yes!
(Lars) Oh, you are saying sexual "relationship"...
(annie) Yes!
(Lars) whereas I am just thinking of a sexual "encounter"
(Becca) Sex in the office, I would love it <G>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Good! <smile>  I was beginning to think that I was odd!
(annie) When the relationship is over, you still have work to deal with.
(Dave X.) Don't get your honey and your money at the same place! <g>
(annie) Becca, <g>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Dave, after that, we might as well call the rest of 
                    this CO off <g>... unless someone disagrees!
(Becca) Polly, how were you beginning to think you were odd?
(:: Polly :: <host>) But really, it *does* happen.  We do end up attracted 
                    to people at work.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Does the mere fact of attraction cause potential 
                    problems? 
(Becca) I don't think the attraction causes problems.
(:: Polly :: <host>)  No, Becca?  What does?
(Becca) It's when those attractions are acted upon that problems can arise.
(David T) There is a problem if there is also a reporting relationship 
         involved.
(Dave X.) I worked with a lover for four years. DISASTER!
(David T) Some companies have rules, you can't work for your spouse.
(:: Polly :: <host>) David, you mean that there's a control issue there?
(Lars) I am not talking about an ongoing "relationship"...
(:: Polly :: <host>) Dave, want to tell us?  (I love your stories!)
(Lars) maybe just a quick boink in the file or storage room.
(David T) And perhaps a favoritism issue, too.
(Dave X.) Some companies have rules that say you can't have an SO within 
         the same company, regardless of reporting. Well, Poll, it was like 
         this...
(Becca) I don't think that companies can effectively enforce those rules.
(Dave X.) <music, lights, camera, ACTION...>
(David T) I wonder if they can legally enforce such a rule, especially if 
         married.
(:: Polly :: <host>) I agree, Becca.
(Lars) Dave, I'm sure they can enforce rules such as those.
(:: Marlaina ::) maybe not private industry, but government sure can
(Lars) Wasn't there just recently a very public disclosure of a similar
       incident at Walmart store?
(:: Polly :: <host>) Legally, yes, but effectively, it's pretty hard!
(Becca) Lars, they can...but do they really?
(Dave X.) They can't enforce them, but they can make it VERY difficult.
(David T) Bill Gates married a subordinate.
(:: Polly :: <host>) <still waiting for Dave's story!>
(Becca) If the employees job performance is not suffering, what's the issue?
(:: Polly :: <host>) David, he's the boss! <g>
(David T) But when you are a billionaire owner, you can do it.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Becca, can it affect others' performance?
(Dave X.) Bill Gates is in a rather forunate position of power. He can make 
         his own rules!
(:: Marlaina ::) What about in safety jobs, such as cops?
(Becca) <----would have married Bill Gates if he had asked <g>
(:: Marlaina ::) should you be partners with your partner?
(Lars) When you have billions, everyone is your subordinate. :)
(Dave X.) Becca, ME TOO! <g>
(Becca) LOL!!!
(:: Marlaina ::) What about if you report to your partner?
(:: Polly :: <host>) Dave, LOL! Marlaina, that's a good question!  What do 
                    you think?
(Becca) Yes it can Polly <affect others' perfomance>
(Dave X.) Did you know he is Bill Gates the 3rd? Kind of scary that there's 
         another two of him running around!
(Lars) I think, especially today with upsurge of small businesses,... that 
      alot of "couples" are in business together...
(David T) If you report to your SO, won't the other workers be suspicious?
(Becca) I could never report to my partner.....
(Lars) Of course...that is different than actually meeting and courting...
(Becca) now on the other hand my partner could report to me <g>
(Lars) someone at work.
(:: Marlaina ::) Why not, Becca?
(Dave X.) I would jump into business (and other things!) with Lisa in a 
         flash!
(:: Polly :: <host>) Dave, <smile>  I'm sure!
(:: Marlaina ::) <g> Becca, and she does that indeed <g>
(Becca) >EG? yikes...<EG>
(Lars) But then of course, from a position of power in bus. you must 
      consider repercussions, both legal and psycho. For example, if boss 
      dates worker and things turn sour one could easily make scene of 
      sexual harrassment...
(:: Polly :: <host>) Repercussions to whom, Lars?
(Becca) Possibly to the company, Polly
(Lars) And even if not proven, publicity is often resp. for downfall... 
      even if innocent.
(:: Polly :: <host>) But Lars, it's possible to claim sexual harrassment in 
                    many situations which we don't prevent. Why is work 
                    different? How to the company, Becca? 
(Lars) That type of relationship switches power positions of couple in 
      office.
(David T) The company gets sued in  these situations, Polly.   Deep pockets.
(Lars) Worker often has manipulative power over boss as result of bad 
       relationship, or other relationship factors.
(David T) What about the most famous example of reporting to your spouse?
(Becca) Depending on the position of the employees in question, the company 
       has certain obligations to its employtees
(Lars) Especially if one of party is currently married.
(Dave X.) Clinton, David?
(David T) And Hilary. (Not saying who reports to whom)
(Dave X.) What about it? Seems to work quite well from over here. <g> David!
(:: Polly :: <host>) David, <g>  Do you find a problem with that?...
(Lars) It works quite well, when you consider that Hillary seems to wear
(:: Polly :: <host>) As Dave says, it seems to work pretty well!
(Becca) An officer of the corporation assumes a certainlevel of liability 
       in conducting "affairs".
(Lars) the pants on a familial level.
(David T) What about Whitewater?  Seems like that was involved there.
(Dave X.) Lars, that is a rather old fashioned stereotypical model don't 
         you think?
(:: Polly :: <host>) So, Becca, it becomes a company affair?  No longer a 
                    private matter? Almost as if the company were 
                    conducting it? How so, David?
(Becca) Yup. It could be construed as such.
(David T) The partners were in different roles, but mixed them up for 
         business advantage.
(Lars) DAVE X - what is "stereotypical" model?
(:: Polly :: <host>) We're talking about mixing up sexual relationships and 
                    work, Debra...
(:: Polly :: <host>) David, I'm still trying to understand why you think 
                    that the Clinton's marital relationship affected 
                    Whitewater?  (putting aside the question of whether 
                    there really is a problem there)
(:: Marc F. ::) Assuming Bill did have affairs, that pretty much says 
               something about his relationship with Hillary, doesn't it?
(David T) Governor appoints a S&L regulator; his wife writes a letter to 
         regulator.
(:: Polly :: <host>) <Aside:  the guy on the radio just suggested that the 
                    city crews put away their plows and get out the 
                    Zambonis! <g>>
(:: Marc F. ::) Polly, LOL!
(Lars) Marc...what do you assume that would say about relationship?
(Becca) LOL Polly!
(:: Marc F. ::) <--no snow in KS
(:: Polly :: <host>) But, Marc, does that have anything to do with either 
                    of their jobs?
(David T) Lots of rain here in Philadelphia.
(:: Marc F. ::) Lars, if he's having extra-marital affairs, how could it 
               *not*? Polly, for government figures to have affairs is to 
               open themselves up to undue pressures.
(Lars) Marc...but what does that SAY about their relationship?
(:: Marc F. ::) Lars, it says Bill cheated <smile>
(David T) Is it cheating if your spouse knows about it?
(Lars) Well, that's certainly the popular MEDIA version...but I often find 
      myself doubting the media...and rightfully so.
(David T) (Still adultery, of course)
(:: Polly :: <host>) Marc, *if* he had affairs (and that isn't proven) do 
                    we have any evidence that it affected his marital 
                    relationship or his or Hillary's business dealings?
(:: Marc F. ::) David, it's still adultery, correct. Polly, it's affecting 
               his presidency as we speak. His credibility. Lars, I do too 
               - doubt the media.
(Lars) Marc, how is it effecting presidency and credibility...pls. show one 
      example.
(:: Marlaina ::) Oh, Mrc! psst!!!!!!!!!!!!
(David T) Whether he and his wife can be trusted to not enrich themselves 
         at the public's expense.
(:: Marlaina ::) Give me a break! <g>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Well, the rumors are certainly giving bashers a lot to 
                    gossip about. <smile>
(Lars) of how marital infidelity has kept Bill from fulfilling job reqs.
(:: Marc F. ::) Lars, there is an investigation underway right now! That's 
               tax dollars to check on Bill's fidelity??? C'mon!
(Lars) Marc, I don't know of any TAX dollars being spent to investigat 
      infidelity... the only $$$$ I know of are coming from various 
      tabloids.
(Becca) <----first on the block with my RE_ELECT CLINTON GORE BUTTON...I 
       got it last April <G>
(:: Marlaina ::) Marc, aren't you getting confused with white water? That's 
                the investigation, not Bill's sexual fidelity or lack 
                thereof
(:: Marc F. ::) Isn't there a diffusion of interest re: both Whitewater and 
               the affairs?
(Dave X.) <--- Big Clinton/Gore fan!!
(:: Marc F. ::) I still believe it takes away from his credibility as 
               President.
(Lars) I don't know any "serious" media outlet that is continuing to
(:: Marlaina ::) Me, too!!!
(:: Polly :: <host>) You're not the only one, Dave!
(:: Marlaina ::) How, Marc?
(Becca) Dave....no wonder we make such a wonderful couple <g>
(Lars) push the (alleged) infadelity factors.
(:: Marlaina ::) And you said there was tax dollars being spent to 
                investigate his fidelity, where?
(:: Marc F. ::) I can see I've walked into a Democratic caucus <smile>
(Dave X.) Becca, that's a little forward of you! <g>
(:: Marlaina ::) No, Hug> Marc, just want you to back your statement
(Lars) Marc, perhaps you have just stumbled onto an "intelligent" caucus. :)
(:: Marlaina ::) Where are tax $ being spent to investigate his sexual 
                fidelity?
(:: Marc F. ::) Marlaina, listen to the intent of what I said, not the 
               details - yes, Whitewater is being investigated.
(Dave X.) I mean, Becca, we practically work together! What will people say!
(:: Marlaina ::) Marc, you said tax dollars were being spent on it, and the 
                it was
(:: Marc F. ::) Lars, intelligent I don't doubt.
(Becca) Marc, I would have to say that I am a little to the left of a 
       Democrat <g>
(:: Marlaina ::) Bill's sxual fidelty <I thought> I'm a moderate dem
(:: Marc F. ::) There wasn't any time or money spent on Gennifer Flowers? 
               <-- apolitical
(:: Polly :: <host>) Hmmm, Becca and Dave work together?  Over a what, 
                    7,000 mile difference? Err... distance.
(:: Marlaina ::) He wasn't in the white house then, what tax money was 
                spent?
(Pat) []if whitewater means taking another look at the s&l debacle, clinton 
     can take the heat
(:: Marlaina ::) Time, yes, the republicans needed *something to
(:: Marc F. ::) There isn't any money being spent in Arkansas to check up 
               on the State Policemen?
(Lars) 7000 miles?  where are you people calling from?
(:: Marlaina ::) try to re-elect George <g>
(Becca) Well, Polly, we do seem to spend  an hour each AM together.
(:: Marc F. ::) Marlaina, let's leave party politics out of it, please? 
               This isn't a dem-GOP issue. It's an issue of the credibility 
               of our Pres.
(David T) Marlaina, George was dead in the water in February 1992, and sunk 
         now.
(:: Marc F. ::) Whether he's Bush or Clinton.
(:: Marlaina ::) <smile> on which we do not agree, M
(Pat) []like party politics have played no role in dredging this mess up
(Becca) Pat <g>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Let's get back to the relevant parts of this issue, 
                    ok? <smile> What, if any, effect has the fact that 
                    the Clintons are married had on their performance of 
                    their jobs?
(:: Marc F. ::) I think Hillary's helped Bill out, Polly.
(:: Marlaina ::) Me, too, Polly!!
(Pat) []im []clinton marriage throughout 1978-92 definite political asset
(David T) Oh, it improved HRC's performance as a lawyer, being married to 
         the Gov'nr.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Is that something to be avoided, Marc?  Is it a 
                    problem?
(:: Marc F. ::) Polly, I think she's been an asset for him.
(:: Polly :: <host>) How so, David? So are we saying that mixing a sexual 
                    relationship with work isn't always a disaster?
(David T) She represented the S&l and kept it going for months longer than 
         otherwise.
(:: Marc F. ::) You're assuming they have sex, Polly <g> Personally, I 
               wonder.
(Becca) Ohhhhh Polly, good job bringing us back on point.
(David T) Marc, Chelsea is proof of something.
(:: Polly :: <host>) David, she was their attorney!  Should she abandon 
                    them because....
(Pat) []what's relevance of hilly & billy doing it?
(:: Marc F. ::) How old is Chelsea, David?
(:: Polly :: <host>) they have legal problems?
(:: Marlaina ::) <sigh> who cares if they have sex!!
(:: Marc F. ::) Polly asked about sexual relationship - theirs seems to be 
               more business now.
(David T) For employees on less lofty levels, it is a risky business, Polly.
(Becca) If the roles were reversed and Hillary had been Govnr, people would 
       not be all over Bill because he maintained his carrer.
(Pat) []presumptions about clinton's sex life pointless voyeurism
(:: Polly :: <host>) Right, Becca!! I think that's an important point.
(Dave X.) Right ON BECCA!
(:: Polly :: <host>) Pat, I agree.
(:: Marc F. ::) Pat!!! It was a JOKE!
(David T) Maintaining your career and representing clients dependent on 
         gov't favor?
(Pat) []ok,cool rush
(:: Polly :: <host>) David, are you saying that Hillary Rodham wouldn't 
                    have had a career if her spouse had not been elected 
                    governor??
(David T) Not at all, but she took on a client which lead to conflicts, IMO.
(:: Polly :: <host>) OK, let's posit this:  I'm an attorney.  I represent a 
                    small manufacturer...
(Dave X.)  You manufacture smalls, Polly? <g>
(David T) Perhaps sometime in 1996 we will begin to learn the truth.
(:: Polly :: <host>) my husband is elected to the town zoning board, before 
                    which my client has an appeal.  Are you saying that 
                    I should resign from all representation of that client? 
                    Dave <g>
(:: Marc F. ::) That's called conflict of interest, isn't it?
(Becca) Polly, is it your client or your FIRM's client?
(:: Polly :: <host>) Not in anything but the zoning matter.
(David T) But your husband is the one with the obvious conflict.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Either, Becca.
(Lars) Of course it is conflict of interest, but who is to say how the 
      "couple" will handle such matters.
(:: Marc F. ::) Polly, ethically shouldn't you refer your client to another 
               attorney just for the zoning matter?
(Lars) And although it is correct to assume in professional career, one
(:: Polly :: <host>) Whitewater was a federal matter primarily.  Bill 
                    Clinton was Governor of Arkansas.
(Lars) would "back-off" from such a situation...who is to say who is at 
      fault for
(:: Polly :: <host>) That's what I said, Marc.
(Lars) becoming embroiled in such a contraversy in the first place.
(David T) The S&L was a state assn, Polly.
(David T) Regulated by an official appointed by the governor of AK.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Yes, David, but weren't the violations federal ones? 
                    Perhaps I'm mixed up on this.
(Lars) The fact that we are discussing "whitewater" at all shows how easily 
      you are swindled by Media interpretations of these events.
(:: Marlaina ::) <wonders what happened to attractions at the office?> <g>
(David T) Only in the sense that the federal taxpayer provided 
         $60,000,000.00 bailout.
(Becca) <---wants to talk about sex in the office
(David T) Do you want to do it in the office, Becca?
(Dave X.) BECCA! Not now!
(:: Polly :: <host>) You know what; Marlaina and Becca are right <g> We're 
                    talking about
(:: Marlaina ::) <is trying to *get* to the office---still>
(:: Polly :: <host>) sex in *two* offices, not one!
(Becca) Why not Dave?
(:: Polly :: <host>) Trying hard, I see, Marlaina! <g>
(:: Marlaina ::) <can't get out!! sheet of ice>
(Lars) I'm sure after Bill's speech on Tuesday he went back to white house 
      and gave it to Hillary good. That's what I consider an office "affair"
(:: Polly :: <host>) Folks, is it a different set of issues when we're 
                    dealing with...
(David T) 'it', Lars?  Just what?
(:: Polly :: <host>) interoffice matters rather than intr*a*office matters!
(:: Marc F. ::) Polly, if the two are working closely together, it can get 
               sticky. Complicated. The closer, the more complex the 
               situation can become.
(Lars) sticky AND slippery (if you play the cards right)
(:: Polly :: <host>) Conflict of interest is the biggest issue when you're 
                    dealing with two places, I think, whereas the 
                    interest of the business can intrude...
(:: Marc F. ::) Lars, I've been in that situation. Slippery is not apt.
(:: Polly :: <host>) into the relationship in the other (and vice-versa) 
                    Slippery?
(:: Marc F. ::) Not even considering the interests of the business, Polly, 
               it can interfere withone's personal life/job performance.
(:: Polly :: <host>) How so, Marc?
(:: Marc F. ::) During a relationship, time is taken from the performance 
               of the job, and afterwards there can be hard feelings.
(:: Marlaina ::) It's bad enough if you break up with a partner and have to 
                 go to work and try to carry on, but **worse** if that 
                 partner is **at** work while you are ***trying*** to carry 
                 on!!
(:: Marc F. ::) Marlaina, I agree.
(:: Marlaina ::) I can't imagine it!!!
(Becca) Me either, Marlaina.
(:: Marc F. ::) But I've done it.
(Becca) When you split, work is quite possibly your only refuge.
(:: Marlaina ::) And even the converse is true: consider this: you meet and 
                fall in love with somebody! Life is good! you wanna spend 
                your every waking moment <at first> with that person, but 
                you have to go to work. Oh my God!! that persn's at work!! 
                How could you get much done? You'd find excises for time 
                together, long lunches, things might get swayed one way or 
                another
(:: Marc F. ::) That was my point, too, M.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Marlaina, how does one get much done when infatuated 
                    anyway? <g>
(Becca) See Marlaina?  That's why I don't want to hire you as my assistant <g>
(:: Marlaina ::) M!! <hug> we do agree on a lot! Becca, you don't wanna 
                hire me cuz Ican't add for *.ht!!! and you are a numbers 
                cruncher <g>
(Becca) M, we have machines that add for you <g>
(Dave X.) Polly, EXACTLY!
(:: Polly :: <host>) So the beginnings and endings are problems.  What 
                    about a settled relationship?
(Dave X.) Even if you were not at work together, you will find excuses to 
         be together!
(Becca) I have seen a few of them work, Polly.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Thanks, Dave, I was beginning to wonder if I could be 
                    heard here! <g>
(:: Marc F. ::) Don't couples need time away from each other??
(Becca) They resulted in happy marriages.
(:: Marlaina ::) Depends on if you work in a small business or a large one 
                I'd say If you own the business and it's a partnership then 
                it's a little different but if you are 2 office mates, I'd 
                still say no
(:: Polly :: <host>) I've seen them, too, Becca.  I think that personality 
                    and commitment to the business are very large factors.
(:: Marc F. ::) I don't ever want a relationship where I'm with my partner 
               24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. It'd smother me.
(:: Marlaina ::) what happens if you disagree on something at work?
(Becca) They were in large companies and the individuals involved were 
       peers.
(:: Marlaina ::) Good for you, Marc!!! But were they office mates, Becca in 
                same dept?
(:: Marc F. ::) So, my answer to Polly's question, is "No way!"
(:: Marlaina ::) See, I think that you can do it if you aren't in each 
                other's faces all day!!
(Becca) Yes.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Has anyone seen/experienced a relationship where the 
                    partners couldn't make it?
(Becca) It was when I worked for a Big 6 accounting firm
(:: Polly :: <host>) We do seem to be conjecturing here! <smile>
(:: Marc F. ::) Polly, I was in one <smile>
(:: Marlaina ::) Yes, I have, Polly
(:: Polly :: <host>) You worked together, Marc?
(:: Marlaina ::) Two police officers same shift
(:: Marc F. ::) Yes.
(Dave X.) Yes, Polly, me.
(:: Polly :: <host>) <waiting for everyone's stories!>
(:: Marc F. ::) She drove me nuts.
(Dave X.) My previous conviction. <g>
(:: Marc F. ::) <--still nuts
(Becca) Dave, you are an ex-con? <g>
(:: Marlaina ::) They took the job home with them each had a different 
                style of enforcement styles and such it finally ruined 
                their marriage, and one of them left the force
(Dave X.) Marc, in my case I think we drove each other nuts. That sounds a 
         little one sided.
(:: Marc F. ::) Dave, I drive everybody nuts. That's nothing new <g>
(Dave X.) Ha bloody ha, becca! <g>
(:: Polly :: <host>) So it ruined a career, too, Marlaina?
(:: Marlaina ::) No, the one who left joined another force elsewhere
(Dave X.) Marc! <lol> I thought it was only me!!!
(:: Polly :: <host>) Becca, Dave's a good con-catcher!!  He knows how to 
                    relate to them! <g>
(:: Marc F. ::) In my case, she transferred to another job, and now, years 
               later, we're friends. 
(Becca) <g>
(Dave X.) <bow> He's been put away Poll! Two years he got! Did I tell you 
         that?
(:: Polly :: <host>) Good, Marc.  At least there was some resolution, 
                    there. No, Dave!!  Congratulations!! Dave, have you 
                    uploaded that story yet? I just can't tell it the way 
                    you do.
(Dave X.) <blush> No! Wrote, it, but it's at home. Haven't got round to it!
(Becca) He does have a way with words, does he not, Polly?
(:: Polly :: <host>) Sure does, Becca!
(Dave X.) Oh Becca, you should have seen my performance the day after, 
         Polly can tell you! John Cleese, eat you heart out! <brag brag>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Hmmm, what do we have to do get it where anyone can 
                    see it?
(Becca) LOL
(:: Polly :: <host>) All bragging justified! <hug>
(Becca) Ooohhhh, D--aaaave.... could you please upload the story for all 
        to enjoy??? Pretty please? <batting eyelashes>
(Dave X.) Polly, you're letting the cat out of the bag! <g>
(Becca) Bye Marc
(:: Polly :: <host>) Too late, the cat's gone! <g>
(:: Polly :: <host>) This has certainly disintegrated!  While we can still 
                    remember, any last
(:: Polly :: <host>) words on "Sex in the Office?"
(Andrew) I'm all for it.
(Becca) Yes, please <g>
(Dave X.) Yes. Keep the door closed!
(Becca) Dave. better yet, my door locks <g>
(:: Polly :: <host>) OK!  Log closed! <g>