AOH :: CONFD.TXT|
What is Confidence? Part 4
This is the fourth in our series of conferences on Confidence itself.
A lively group tries to determine whether we need confidence, the role
of confidence in leadership, the creation of confidence in childhood and the
rolef knowledge in one's confidence.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Welcome to Confidently Speaking!
(:: Marc F. ::) <smirk>
(:: Polly :: <host>) For the last few weeks, we've been talking about
confidence is.... Now let's see if we can figure out
whether it's necessary. <g>... Do you *need* to be
(:: Nan ::) yes
(:: Polly :: <host>) Short and sweet answer, Nan. <g> Care to expand?
(Steve) Yes! Self-esteem is important
(carol a) Most of the time, yes.
(Tom) Well of course
(Lance W.) Most Definitly
(:: Marc F. ::) It's part of self-respect, I think, therefore important.
(:: Polly :: <host>) What happens if one isn't feeling confident? Don't
things get done anyway?
(Tom) Good, Marc I agree
(:: Nan ::) Polly, i think to get anything done (right) you have to believe
in yourself Polly, not as well as they could be
(:: Marc F. ::) Thanks, Tom, I respect that <g>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Sounds like most of you agree.... so confidence is
important in that it helps one to do things "right?"
(Lance W.) With out Confidence Man would not do or create anything new
(Bud) Polly, Confidence is more necessary when attempting things that are
discretionary rather then mandatory.
(:: Marc F. ::) Lance, unless by accident.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Lance, how about necessity?
(Tom) You need good friends though to be confident
(carol a) Good pont Lance.
(:: Nan ::) I agree, Tom
(:: Marc F. ::) Tom, they help immensely!
(:: Polly :: <host>) Ah, Bud. I agree. A few weeks ago, I used the
example of ..
(:: Paula ::) Sur le pont, d'Avignon.... Oh, sorry.
(:: Marc F. ::) Paula, PG room here.
(Tom) You are all starting to understand me, thanx
(:: Nan ::) <g>
(:: Paula ::) Oh, OK. <meekly slinking>
(:: Polly :: <host>) climbing the mast of a sailboat during a storm. That
takes courage, but not confidence.
(Pat) [Dale Carnegie nonwithstanding, confidence can lead people beyond
(:: Nan ::) Polly, doesn't it?
(:: Polly :: <host>) Interesting, Pat. What do you mean?
(:: Nan ::) you have to have confidence that you can succeed at it
(:: Neil ::) it takes confidence if you want to be less likely to fall,
(Bud) Confidence implies skill or awareness, freindship has no bearing on
this. Friendship is better when developing a new confidence
(:: Paula ::) Take skiing.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Nan, when I've done it, I've had no confidence at all,
but just the determination to get the job done.
(Lance W.) Courage comes from the comfidence that you will susceed
(:: Paula ::) If you are confident, you still fall, but you don't care.
(Pat) I am all in favor of pushing one's limits, but a bravura confidence
can lead youto overestimate your ability.
(:: Neil ::) until you hit the deck, Paula
(:: Nan ::) Polly, but you had some confidence that you could even do it in
the first place
(carol a) Knowledge also increases confidence..especially with skiing
(:: Polly :: <host>) Paula, if you fall, you're probably not in condition
to be confident or unconfident. <g>
(:: Marc F. ::) Deck? You ski on the deck?
(Pat) <------ has fallen and cared about it at the time
(:: Nan ::) <g>
(:: Paula ::) You just get up and brush the snow off, Polly.
(Pat) Snow is so cold.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Oops, I think we have mountains and boats mixed up
(:: Marc F. ::) Paula, what if you hit a mogul and goof up your knee?
(:: Paula ::) and hope nobody saw you, although they always do.
(Pat) Speaking as a Texan.
(:: Neil ::) the fall doesn't hurt...just the stop at the bottom
(:: Paula ::) Oh, yeah, Marc. <g>
(:: Nan ::) stop?? you're supposed to stop? <G>
(:: Paula ::) Neil, very true.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Paula, usually a 6 year old, who gets you back on your
(Pat) Water skiing in the snow is especially difficult.
(:: Marc F. ::) Or, Paula, how many ski rescuers do you wave off until a
cute one happens by?
(:: Neil ::) <---always wanted to be a mogul
(:: Paula ::) Polly, sorry. Two very different things. Marc, the first one
was cute, so I let him help me.
(:: Marc F. ::) You lucked out!
(:: Neil ::) Marc...I wait for the big dog with the brandy
(:: Paula ::) All ski patrollers are gorgeous.
(carol a) Cofidence is going down the double black diamond...or is that
just plain "guts" Paula?
(:: Paula ::) And they are all confident, too.
(:: Marc F. ::) Neil, does brandy help your confidence? <g>
(Bud) Confidence is a living opinion expressed openly without fear of
(:: Paula ::) caroll, skill and guts and a certain insouciance.
(Pat) Say, I'm looking for a Kato-type of Professional House Guest
(:: Nan ::) Marc, alcohol improves mine
(:: Neil ::) two brandies, yes <G>
(:: Marc F. ::) Pat lOL!
(carol a) But always fall when a cute patroller comes along <s>
(:: Paula ::) Pat, are you a Kato-look-alike?
(:: Neil ::) alcohol removes inhibitions...
(Pat) [Sure, why not? <g>
(:: Neil ::) it creates false confidence
(:: Paula ::) carol, preferably, fall in his path and trip him.
(Bud) carol, can you help me with my *bindings*
(:: Polly :: <host>) For some folks, Neil. Some of us just fall asleep. <g>
(Pat) Actually, that hair flip thing has me stymied.
(:: Paula ::) Bud, <groan>
(Pat) Kato's hair.
(:: Nan ::) Neil, true....but i found i spoke a lot more Russian in Kiev
when i was drunk then when i was sober
(carol a) Sure Bud...let's take the mogul hill first!!!<g>
(Bud) Paula, I was so, so confident. <s>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Nan, after finding yourself speaking Russian when you
were drunk, could you feel better about speaking it
(Pat) [/sen 105 <---- making note to hide all vodka
(:: Nan ::) Polly, not really i was less nervous about speaking it when i
(Bud) Polly, confidence is not necessary
(Bud) confidence is a convenience
(:: Polly :: <host>) No, Bud? Not ever?
(Bud) No ever, only a convenience no=not
(:: Polly :: <host>) A convenience... yes, it is that. Does everyone agree
(:: Marc F. ::) No!
(:: Nan ::) a convenience in what sense?
(carol a) No
(:: Marc F. ::) I think confidence isn't a goal as much as a byproduct of
healthy mental attitude.
(Fred) Confidence is being used to something. It, like most else, needs
(:: Polly :: <host>) Is confidence being used to something? Fred, are you
*never* confident in a new situation?
(:: Marc F. ::) Fred, good point.
(:: Nan ::) how do you practice being confident??
(Bud) Assume that you are going to do something. You can approach it
confindently or not, but either way you will do it. What is the
(:: Marc F. ::) Confidence can come from experiencing success.
(:: Marc F. ::) Bud, for some things your confidence can actually determine
(:: Polly :: <host>) Bud, perhaps the difference is in the quality fo the
(Fred) -Most- always.
(Bud) marc, yes it can but it is not necessary.
(:: Marc F. ::) Take a fighter pilot as an extreme example.
(Bud) or a *natural* born pilot
(Fred) But life can become even redundant if youre used to it.
(:: Neil ::) <---never took a fighter pilot anywhere
(:: Marc F. ::) I was reading about F15 pilots during the Gulf
War - their own self
(:: Polly :: <host>) OK, folks....how about a more familiar situation?...
(:: Marc F. ::) confidence was absolutely critical to their performance.
(Bud) Now, it the question is Does confidence improve a situation. I would
(:: Polly :: <host>) We all took tests in school. Were your grades better
when you felt confident?
(:: Marc F. ::) Right, Bud!
(:: Polly :: <host>) How was that studied, Marc?
(:: Neil ::) if you are confident you don't second guess yourself fighter
pilots don't have time for that
(:: Marc F. ::) Polly, Air Force statistics and training procedures.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Good point, Neil.
(Bud) I taken tests and been very confident and scored poorly, also
(:: Polly :: <host>) Marc, did those tell anything about the individual
pilot's confidence? Bud, me, too.
(:: Marc F. ::) Polly, most of the pilots came into the program confident.
Even cocky. That was encouraged.
(Fred) Nan, you asked how can you practice being confident? The idea is not
practicing confidence, but being put in a situation where you are
constently not confident.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Ah, I see, Marc.
(carol a) The pilots also had alot of training that led to their confidence
(:: Polly :: <host>) Fred, that sounds awful!
(Fred) If I said that right.
(Otis) Confidence is not a case of learning or trying to be , but simply a
case of innate "being"
(Bud) Where is the line between confidence and experience. In the fighter
pilot example a pilot may feel confident due to experience and survive
due to experience which may develop confidence.
(Otis) It comes from within ...
(carol a) Do those pilots have confidence in situations where they are now
(Fred) Esperience is the only teacher, Polly. Life is not always pleasant.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Otis, if it's innate... does that mean one is doomed
to forever being unconfident?
(Bud) One measure of confidence is the willingness to experiment
(Otis) Bud ... you can know all their is to know but if you don't "believe"
then it ain't no good.l
(:: Polly :: <host>) But Fred, a situation in which one is *never*
confident gives no room to learn confidence does it?
(Otis) Polly ... not exactly ... it's a process of discovery which ,
culminates finally to the point where you just know you have it.
(Bud) Otis, I think that is wrong
(:: Polly :: <host>) How does that work,though, Otis?
(Fred) Does a good actor need confidence? Yes, but experience will do much
(Otis) Your opinion Bud ... I can only speak for my own experiences. Angie
... do you agree with Fred?
(PHIL) What about false or mis-placed confidence.
(Fred) Polly, that person probably needs experience>
(Mary Jo) Fred, Polly, everyone...we are all good at something, no? it is
from that which we build our self-esteem and confidence
(:: Polly :: <host>) Hi, Phil... what about it? Is it always invalid?
(Bud) I get goosebumps when I do things for the first time. The lack of
experience excites me and is a thrill.
(PHIL) I think training can give it
(carol a) Mary Jo, I agree with you and once you start building confidence
it continues to grow.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Mary Jo, your theory is that we can derive confidence
in one area from success in another?
(wayne) I think you need confidence if you want to impress someone, its a
mild form of intimidation because this confidence shows tru
(Otis) Polly ... I used to play ball, and I played with a lot of guys who
were much more talented than I was, but, they lacked confidence and
despite the abilities to excel, they never did. You just have to
have belief in yourself and a sense that you can do it.
(Mary Jo) no, Polly...my theory is that we first need to find what we are
successful in doing...from there we can build <s> hi Poitr agreed,
(:: Polly :: <host>) A bit backwards from what I said, Mary Jo?
(Wanda (tv)) You have to have confidence in yourself to succede in doing
(Piotr (UK)) I've brought something <puts down a bottle of chardonnay on
(Fred) You can teach a student how to add and subtract but he will never
understand fully until he (or she) does it himself.
(Otis) Good Point Mary Jo. I agree. You can be extremely confident in some
areas and not in others.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Wayne, we haven't dealt with intimidation yet. Are
you intimidated by someone else's confidence?
(Fred) Face the fear!
(:: Polly :: <host>) Fred, good point!
(Mary Jo) Polly, you said it exactly as i meant it, it just looked funny<g>
(Tom) over-confidence can be intimidating!
(:: Polly :: <host>) Mary Jo. <g>
(wayne) I can be, maybe its just envy because i have a self confidence
(carol a) How can you be intimidated by condifence?
(:: Polly :: <host>) You know, I think most of us think of ourselves as
having some problems with self-confidence in one or
another area, if not overall.
(Mary Jo) i'd like to comment on what Bud said...i have done public
speaking hundreds of times...but i don't get a thrill out of
it...i hate it
(Fred) Carol, elaborate?
(Tom) when someone is too confident, it makes you feel low
(Otis) Carol ... someone who is extremely confident can scare the hell out
of you if you are not, and have to deal with them.
(wayne) You can be intimidated by confidence if you are not confidence
because then a confident person can control you
(Mary Jo) agreed, Polly<s>
(carol a) Intimidated by knowledge maybe, but confidence?
(Wanda (tv)) Wayne rember you can do some things better than others and
some things not as well.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Wayne, nobody can control you without your consent.
(PHIL) You are working for someone that is confident in his ability but you
know they don't have it.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Wanda, thanks. <smile>
(Otis) Carol ... when you deal with someone confident they give the
impression of being knowledgible.
(wayne) confident people get the jobs, become president etc. these are the
people that can control others. having confidence can may you
(Mary Jo) it's a mind set more than anything else, wayne
(Wanda (tv)) But if you do not have enough confidence to say what you want
then people will control you against your will.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Hmmm... I'm seeing the words "impression" "seem"
"look" a lot here.
(carol a) True Otis, but knowledge, or lack of, comes through eventually.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Does fact have anything to do with this?
(Mary Jo) is that confidence or fear, Wanda?
(Fred) Wayne, a person with confidence will always be intimidating if the
other person is no confident. Thats why we have so many David Keresh
(Wanda (tv)) lack of confidence can become fear.
(Otis) Yes ..eventually it does Carol. But that might be too late sometimes.
(Mary Jo) Polly, it is a fact that you're seeing *impression*, *seem* and
*look* a lot here<g,d,r>
(Tom) very right, Wanda
(:: Polly :: <host>) MJ, LOL!! I guess my point is that we seem to be
coming to conclusions and being intimidated because
of appearances. Can finding out the truth make one
(carol a) Sure, Polly.
(Mary Jo) yes, Polly, it can<s>.
(Otis) Polly ... that's why I love this place ... It's strictly your mind
on display. Nothing else.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Otis, do you mean that you tell the truth here?
(Fred) People are looking for answers; always. Lack of knowledge is lack of
(Wanda (tv)) Not really it can actually hurt sometimes. Confidence should
be built into to children.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Fred, I think it can be...
(Otis) To be honest Polly, I'm probably more truthfull here than anywhere
(Wanda (tv)) They need to be positively reinforced.
(:: Polly :: <host>) If you *know* something, even a difficult fact, you
can deal with it. Otis, I think that's true of most of
us. <smile> Wanda, absolutely!!
(Mary Jo) i was recently intimidated because of meeting friends here in
3d...i think they are all more intelligent than i am...therefore
imposing outside of this environment....i mentioned this to them
and they thought i was crazy for even thinking such a thing. i
haven't met them yet, i'll let ya know how it goes<s>
(Wanda (tv)) It is better to tell children what they did right as opposed
to what they did wrong all the time.
(Otis) I think you can also tell easier if someone here is being untruthful.
(:: Polly :: <host>) MJ <smile> That's me knocking on your door. <g>
(Mary Jo) agreed, Wanda LOL, Polly
(Tom) Greta way of thinking,Wanda
(Fred) I was in the Infantry. I learned quickly not to be intimidated.
Intimidation is the worst of all social situations.
(:: Polly :: <host>) How did you learn that, Fred?
(Mary Jo) i thought guilt was, Fred<g>.
(Wanda (tv)) Mary Jo do not worry you always have a different view point on
issues which can always help others to look at things
(:: Polly :: <host>) C'mon, Fred. <smile> I'm sure that you have more to
(Fred) Sorry to disapoint, Mary Jo.
(Mary Jo) thanks, Wanda<s>
(Otis) Wanda ... I'd hate to live in a world where everyone agreed with me.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Right, Otis!
(Wanda (tv)) Everybody has something important to say about something.
(wayne) I agree with otis
(Mary Jo) LOL, wayne
(:: Polly :: <host>) Fred, sorry. Can you explain how your experience
relieved your intimidation?
(Wanda (tv)) I would too. I did not say agree but accept. They are 2
(Otis) Mary Jo ... what's so funny about wayne agreeing with me? <smile>
(Mary Jo) you said you'd find it boring if everyone agreed with you...then
he said, "i agree with Otis". <sick sense of humor, sorry>
(carol a) Fred, let us in on some steps to avoid intimidation.
(Tom) Aren't we suposed to talk about confidence, not intimidation
(Otis) Sorry MJ.. went over my head.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Tom, we're in charge of the conversation.... if we
want to talk about the flip side of confidence, I think
it's ok. <g>
(Otis) Tom .. I am Confident the conversation will swing back that way soon!
(wayne) i agree that confidence must start at childhood. confidence must be
learned. you must be confident that what you are doing will make
you more confident. confidence breeds confidence. even if you are
wrong you must be confident you are right. soon as you start to
second guess yourself you are on a downward spiral to having an
(:: Polly :: <host>) BTW, is intimidation always the flip side of
(carol a) Otis, how "Confident" are you? (lol)
(Fred) I was put in the situation of dealing with people under lesser
confidence than necasaary to accomplish the mission. When You have to
you will wet the needed confidence. Plain and simple.
(Tom) Sorry polly, I won't say anything else, you intimidated me and I lost
my confidence(you understand?)
(:: Polly :: <host>) Ooh, Wayne, that sounds like a recipe for disaster!
Dont' you give... yourself any allowance for failure?
(Mary Jo) low self-esteem could also be the flip side of confidence, Polly
(Fred) -get- instead of wet. sorry
(Wanda (tv)) To build confidence in anyone they must be told when they do
something correct. This attitude would also make life a lot
(:: Polly :: <host>) Tom <g> Speak up anyway, please! Mary Jo, for me that
seems truer than intimidation.
(Tom) Do you understand?
(Wanda (tv)) This does not mean thay one should never be told they did
(PHIL) ::Polly::, Why would we be more confident here than in 3D
(:: Polly :: <host>) Phil, I'm not. Are you?
(wayne) confidence is situation determined. When i teach i can stand in
front of a class of 30 with no problem and babble like a man for
hours. In a bar, i dont even smile, im so nervous
(:: Polly :: <host>) Wanda, I hope you're a teacher. <hug>
(Otis) Phil, I think this is a safer place than 3D.
(PHIL) less that
(Fred) Wanda, all of us dont have that, so we need to be told by ourselves.
(PHIL) less then....see.
(Wanda (tv)) working to that goal. I am a computer programmer. I have 3
(Mary Jo) wayne, i'm exactly the opposite<s>
(Otis) Wayne ... I think that's because in front of the class we're adults,
when we're in the bar we're still little boys.
(carol a) Wayne, is that due to control?
(:: Polly :: <host>) Good point, Fred
(Tom) I'm a c.p. too!
(Otis) Amazing how many c.p.'s there are online.
(Mary Jo) <--has 4 kids...know exactly what you mean, Wanda<s>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Lots of you programmers around here. <g>
(Fred) Wanda, you will probably find that you are your best mentor.
(Mary Jo) agreed, Fred
(PHIL) Fred, doesn't that situation call for leadership to accomplish the
(Wanda (tv)) That is true you need to look to yourself. In fact you should
be able to say you do not need any one.
(wayne) i have an inferiority complex when it comes to women caused by not
understanding women of the '90's. when i teach computers i know
what im doing. so i guess knowledge of the external environment is
the first step to becoming confident about your surroundings
(Mary Jo) when you look into a mirror you find both your best friend and
your worst enemy.
(:: Polly :: <host>) That's further than I would go, Wanda...I *do* need
(Wanda (tv)) Yes Mary Jo
(Fred) Im not sure I follow the Q, PHIL.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Yep, MJ.
(PHIL) Are you guys Philosophy majors?
(:: Polly :: <host>) Not me, Phil. <g>
(Mary Jo) <--not
(wayne) I'm a computer/psych major phil
(Wanda (tv)) I did not say you should be without anyone but that you do not
need them to make you happy. Sorry.
(Fred) PHIL, if all else fails, can we trust ourselves?
(PHIL) Fred, your statement about underconfident people involved with you.
(Tom) I'm a c.p., 10 years now
(carol a) I am not Phil (therefore I am)
(Mary Jo) good point, Fred<s>
(Fred) I should be PHIL, but no.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Ah, that gibes with something else Wanda...."you can't
make me happy, only I can make me happy." Is that what
you were thinking of?
(Mary Jo) LOL, carol
(:: Polly :: <host>) Carol, LOL!
(Wanda (tv)) YES
(:: Polly :: <host>) So..."you can't make me confident, only I can make me
(Otis) Too deep for me here ... Too much philosophical bent.
(PHIL) Fred, How can you accomplish the mission if there is no confident
(:: Polly :: <host>) Or perhaps we need to find the confidence in ourselves?
(Fred) Experience PHIL, thats why you should listen to the old folks.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Thanks for being here anyway, Otis!
(PHIL) Fred, I am the "OLD FOLKS".
(Wanda (tv)) I know I can live the rest of my life with no one. But I want
someone in my life.
(Otis) I'm still here Polly ... just not participating. I'll hang back and
pick up pointers for a while.
(Mary Jo) Phil, by finding something that you are good at...something that
you feel *confident* doing
(wayne) i agree polly, the surroundings will keep changing and you must
adapt to it. you cant expect people to cater to you
(Fred) Seek, PHIL, if you need and yee shall receive. Otherwise suffer.
(Mary Jo) it comes from within....
(:: Polly :: <host>) Mike, we're talking about confidence...at this point
how we can get it. Hope there are some for you to pick
up, Otis. <smile>
(Otis) I'm confident there will be Polly.
(:: Polly :: <host>) <giggle>
(Mary Jo) LOL, Otis
(PHIL) Fred, But if you are in a group trying to reach a goal, don't you
need a leader with confidence? Or am I beating a dead horse?
(Tom) <---- is still here
(Mary Jo) trust has a lot to do with this also, imo.
(Otis) Go Seabiscuit.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Phil, is that necessarily true? Does the leader need
(Fred) If you are the old folks, PHIL, then you know more about a lot of
experience than I can say.
(:: Polly :: <host>) or just knowledge? (And back to the old question; do
they go together?)
(wayne) yes phil but the workers must be confident too. this is the
philosophy they use in the miltary
(PHIL) How else can he lead? If he's not the leader someone else will make
(Fred) PHIL, I have been without a leader most of my life.
(Mary Jo) yes, Polly...i think the more you know about a particular subject
matter, the more confident you feel discussing it
(:: Polly :: <host>) I can make decisions with absolutely no confidence in
(Fred) I can't say that I've made the best decisions
(Mary Jo) LOL, Polly
(Otis) Must be some important decisions you have there Polly? <G>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Mary Jo, that's my experience. Knowledge helps me
toward confidence, but it doesn't create it. That's
life, Otis. <g>
(wayne) Polly, arent uncalculated risks dangerous
(carol a) Making decisions without confidence must mean you have the
confidence to deal with the outcomes.
(Mary Jo) agreed, Polly....only you can create it for yourself
(Fred) but I can say that I have learned from my mistakes.
(:: Polly :: <host>) Hmmm.... wayne, aren't risks risks, whether or not
(MIKE) a leader must look into his heart and follow it and not use his mind
(Otis) All I can say about decisions is ... I've never regretted making the
ones I did, even if they were disasterous, because I believe in
myself, therefore I believe I will do the right thing.
(wayne) well yes polly but there is the stupid line, i mean uninformed
(Mary Jo) no, carol...it means you have lots of folks you can pin the blame
(:: Polly :: <host>) Ummmm, Mike, I hope that the person leading me through
the forest uses his/her mind and not just heart!!
(Fred) Phil, who can say that he is a good leader?
(carol a) LOL...I must remember that one
(:: Polly :: <host>) Ah, yes, Wayne. That makes sense.
(Mary Jo) i think a leader is someone who takes charge of the situation and
is willing to accept the responsibility of the outcome..both good
(:: Polly :: <host>) True, Mary Jo.... but does that say anything about
(John G.) what are we talking about?
(Kate D.) <smile> I always think the best leaders are the ones who don't
have to "take charge" (jumping in, without knowing topic)
(Mary Jo) yes, Polly...you have to be confident enough to take that step
(:: Polly :: <host>) John, confidence.
(wayne) i am new to this bbs and i entered this forum very nervously. but i
looked at the consequences which were basically if things went wrong
id lose access to the forum . i must accept the worse possible thing
that can happen in a situation and then i can be confident. i mean
wont we be happier if we accept death (dont mean to stray)
(MIKE) what about the loyal followers
(:: Polly :: <host>) Clone, topic is still confidence...does that have
anything to do with "taking charge?"
(Mary Jo) LOL
(:: Polly :: <host>) Wayne, not a huge penalty, eh?
(Kate D.) I think sometimes people "take charge" because they *lack*
confidence... and need to be in control
(Fred) Mary Jo, you are correct. But what if it is the wrong.
(John G.) oh ok
(:: Polly :: <host>) Good point, Kate. "If make them believe me, maybe
I'll believe myself?"
(Mary Jo) wrong, what, Fred?
(Eddy) Sometime people take charge because they lack the cofidence of
(John G.) I don't agree with kate d
(Fred) Mary Jo, does this nation respect the leader that is wrong?
(Kate D.) Polly, right... and it takes *more* confidence, for example, to
let those you have trained and managed take risks, no?
(Mary Jo) Fred, leadership and respect are not the same thing
(MIKE) sometimes people make mistakes-fred
(:: Polly :: <host>) <nodding> Yep. I think so. (But then, we're clones.
(Kate D.) Those who lead without the respect of followers are usually
dictators... or simply powermongers
(Mary Jo) a good leader is someone who will teach, train (however you want
to phrase it) those under them to work independently of them
(MIKE) it is just human
(:: Polly :: <host>) Excellent point, MJ!
(Fred) I beg to differ, Mary Jo.
(John G.) I think that some people take control because they actually can
help by doing so
(Fred) It should be.
(Annie) Good leader sets the example
(carol a) A good leader also tries to instill confidence in those he leads
(:: Polly :: <host>) John, would that it were always that way!
(Kate D.) John, I said "sometimes" about the "taking charge" part <smile>...
(Fred) It once was.
(Kate D.) I agree with you, sometimes
(PHIL) Sometimes we need dictators.
(Mary Jo) Fred, imo, respect is earned, not given...iow, you can have a
manger that you don't respect....does that mean they are not your
(Kate D.) Phil, and do we each get to decide when that time is? <laughing>
(John G.) sorry sometime i miss the word sometimes
(PHIL) Not always.
(:: Polly :: <host>) OK, folks, we have 3 minutes before Music Trivia to
wrap this up
(Kate D.) Phil, then who gets to decide? You? Or me? <grin>
(:: Polly :: <host>) for this week....
(wayne) We just got rid of one in canada about 3 yrs ago kate
(Kate D.) wayne, we got rid of him; ergo, he was *not* a dictator
(John G.) what???????
(PHIL) Depends on situation
(Fred) We should have that determined before election; shoulnt we?
(:: Polly :: <host>) Looks like we're going to continue next week, same
topic! Anyone have something that needs to be in this
(PHIL) No new taxes!
(wayne) yes kate but he delayed the election because he knew he would lose,
he twisted the law to do that
(Kate D.) I need to start cleaning up next door.. thanks as usual, Clone!
(Mary Jo) not me<s>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Thanks everyone for another lively hour!
(wayne) so what conclusions have we come to polly?
(Mary Jo) thanks for an excellent CO, Polly...we meandered through several
issues...i liked it!!!<s>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Wayne, darned if I know.... <g>... I'll have to read
(PHIL) Everyone is more confident.
(wayne) thanks polly bye
(:: Polly :: <host>) BTW, those who would like to see them, these
conferences are stored in the Shyness Workshop Library.
<tossing host hat into room> Catch it if you want it!
(Eddy) Well I came in late, so I'm as lost as I was before. Thanks Polly
for keeping the status quo. <g>
(Mary Jo) oh, thanks for telling us, Polly<s> <--always looks for them in
(:: Polly :: <host>) Eddy, glad to oblige. <g> Sorry about that, MJ! I
should probably mention that each time, huh?
(Mary Jo) nah...i just sent Brett there one time looking for it
(Fred) Does this mean that we cant argue nomore?
(Mary Jo) LOL that's what i get for bragging about how great your CO's
(:: Polly :: <host>) Nope, Fred.... argue all you want. I'm going to go
play Music Trivia, though!!
(Eddy) No it doesn't Fred <g>
(:: Polly :: <host>) Thanks, MJ!! <hug>
The entire AOH site is optimized to look best in Firefox® 3 on a widescreen monitor (1440x900 or better).
Site design & layout copyright © 1986- AOH
We do not send spam. If you have received spam bearing an artofhacking.com email address, please forward it with full headers to firstname.lastname@example.org.