AOH :: RLL_Q&A.TXT|
Ontrack RLL Questions & Answers
Questions and Answers on RLL drives from the Ontrack BBS - 8/14/90
I HAVE DM 4.0 AND HAVE AN ADAPTEC 2372B CONTROLLER WITH A SEAGATE
ST277R-1 RLL DISK. THE DM SEEMS TO INITIALIZE AND PARTITION CORRECTLY
BUT WHEN I TRY TO USE FDISK ON DOS 4.0 IT SAYS I HAVE ONLY 42 MEG BUT
THE DRIVE IS A 65 MEGDRIVE. I LOOKS LIKE DISK MANAGER DOESN'T PICK UP ON
26 SECTORS PER TRACK BUT WANTS TO THINK ITS 17 OR MAYBE THE DOS HAS
PROBLEMS BUT WHATEVER I SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY XENIX LOAD ALSO I
AM VERY CONFUSED AND NEED SOME HELP THANKS FOR YOUR TIME BY THE WAY I
HAVE PHOENIX BIOS VER 3.07 IF IT MEANS ANYTHING
If you initialize the drive through the controller bios, the drive will
then appear as a standard drive to the system and you will be able to
have the whole thing as drive C: under DOS 4.x
Ok, I have had the following problem....
a MICROSCIENCE 1120 - 120mb RLL Drive.
a ADAPTEC RLL AT HD/FD controler
a network called LANTASTIC.
SWbios starts cropping up with sector errors all the time. It works
ok, to start, then gets worse and worse, till I have to reboot. I wonder
if I should just format via the card utility, or kill SWbios and go a
With an Adaptech RLL card you should always low level init the
drive thru the controller BIOS. Also I believe the Adaptech card has a
translation mode available that would make it unnessasary to use SWBIOS.
You would then be using DM to partition the drive only (as a standard
I'm trying to install a Minscribe 8450 40 meg hard drive with a Western
Digital WD1006-sr1 controller on to a Jameco 386 20 MHZ system. When I
get past the part of writing bad sectors and it starts to low level
format I get an I/O ERROR - DRIVE 1 CYLINDER 769 HEAD 3. Then after it
gets past that error I get the same error at cylinder 768 and so on.
I've tried everything I can think of but can't get past this point. I
would appreciate any help you can give me.
As with any other controller with a BIOS, (all XT controllers, RLL
controllers, & ESDI controllers) you must either low level format the
drive thru the controller's low level routine accessed thru DEBUG, or
first of all DISABLE THE BIOS and then you can init it as a nonstandard
drive thru DM. Usually your best bet is initing thru the controller
BIOS, because in doing so the drive appears as a standard drive to the
system. This means you don't have any head or Sector Per Track mismatch
in your first partition to contend with, and if you're using 4.01 DOS,
you can have the whole thing as drive C:.
I see I am not the only one having this problem. I am trying to
initialize a Miniscribe 8450 40 meg HD / Western Digital WD1003V-MM1
controller in a Packard Bell PB686 12MHz/286 machine. When the low
level format begins, I keep getting "NO RECORD FOUND I/O ERROR" for
every cylinder and head.
If you are in fact using a WD1003V-MM1 controller as you say,
1. You will only get 30M out of this drive (the MM1 is a MFM controller)
2. You shouldn't be having the problem that you say you are.
My guess is that you aren't using a 1003V-MM1, but are really using an
RLL controller with a BIOS. So.... (here we go again) When using a
controller with a BIOS on board (RLL & EDSI controllers) you must either
low level init the drive thru the controller's BIOS using DEBUG and
partition the drive only with DM as a stndard drive, or first of all
DISABLE THE BIOS of the controller and then you can init the drive thru
DM as a nonstandard drive.
IS THERE ANY KNOWN PROBLEMS WITH DM AND ADAPTEC 1:1 RLL CONTROLLERS?
DO SOME ADAPTECS CONTROLLER CARDS FORCE YOU TO USE THEIR ON-BOARD
FORMATTER AND/OR THEIR OWN "ADAPTEC" GENERATED DEVICE DRIVER?
Not only do SOME adaptec controllers force you to init thru debug,
ALL of them do. With any Adaptec controller, you must init the drive
thru debug, then use DM or DMN to partition the drive only, as a stndard
drive. The Adaptec device driver is not needed if you are using DM to
partition the drive.
I am having a problem that appears to be related to the DMDRVR.BIN.
I was using a Tandy 3000HL (80286) with Tandy's MS-DOS 3.20.03 a
Perstor Controller and a Miniscribe 3053 hard disk drive. I tried to
install MS-DOS 4.01 on the system and the system would always "hang"
during the boot process. I'd go back to 3.20.03 and everything would
work fine. I assumed that there was something that was incompatible with
the Tandy 3000HL machine.
Recentlt, I purchased a 80386-33 with AMI bios, transfered the
hard drive, Perstor controller to the new machine. I tried to install
MS-DOS 4.01 on the system, it installed with no problem, but it would
not boot, again hanging up when trying to use the hard disk. I know that
when you use DOS 4.01 that you should use SHARE.EXE with large media, I
tried using that instead of DMDRVr.BIN and found that it would not work
Am I doing something wrong, or is there an incompatability
between the Perstor controller, MS-DOS 4.01, and DMDRVR.BIN???
In general, there is no incompatiblity between Disk Manager and
DOS 4.01, assuming you have a version of Disk Manager that is designed
to handle DOS 4.01, (Disk Manager 4.x and above). Do you have a large
Write/Read partition that was formatted under DOS 3.x? If so, you will
have to reformat it (actually re-prepare it under DM booted with DOS
4.01), be fore it will work. The two DOS versions are very different,
and you can't just change your DOS version without re-preparing any
partition greater than 32Meg. Partition less than 32M should be OK. If
you have any other questions, you should call our tech support line at
(612)937-2121 so we could get more information from you concerning your
procedure on this attempted upgrade.
I have a Miniscribe 3053 and a Perstor 180 controller, both of which
have worked fine for years under MSDOS 3.20. I have been unable to
upgrade to dos 4.01 because of a compatability problem ? with DMDRVR.BIN
and MSDOS 4.01 when used with a Perstor controller..... If I transfer
4.01 to system and do not use DMDRVR.bin, it works OK but it will not of
course access the second partition. If I use DMDRVR.bin, then the CPU
freezes when trying to access the Perstor Bios upon boot up... Any
You didn't tell me what version of Disk Manager you are using,
but from the symptoms that you describe, I would guess it's a version
prior to 4.0. If so, you will need to upgrade your Disk Manager to
version 4.0 or above, and then re-prepare any partition that is greater
than 32Meg in size. You can upgrade your Disk Manager by contacting our
sales department at (800)752-1333.
I am trying to install a Seagate ST4144R hard disk with your software.
The version number for diskmanager is 4.0. I am using a DTC-5160A
controller. Using the contoller's "auto-configuration" mode properly
completes the low-level format. However, disk manager reports
the drive as 1023 cyl(?), 9 heads, and 25(?) sectors. Why?
Seagate specs for this drive indicate 122.7 formatted capacity.
DM reports a formatted capacity of 117.8 Mb. Does this discrepancy have
anything to do with RLL encoding. Specifically, the DTC manual
indicates that the controller will format 25 user tracks and
1 spare track. Is the spare track unvailable for use and
therefore not recognized by DM? Also, when performing the low-level
format, the DTC controller steps through the cylinders starting at
0 and ending at 1023. If the controller is reporting 0-1023 cyls,
is disk manager interpreting this as 1023 cyls rather than 1024?
Please note, after using "auto-configurattempt to use dm in
the /b mode and use the ST-4144 parameters gives an error message
"This controller does not support the use of non-standard parameters"
and "Unrecoverable IO error." What is going on?
DM reports 1023 cyls because one cyl gets cut off for a CE cyl
and landing zone. The DTC card cuts off one sector per track for sector
sparing that is not available for data storage, therefore DM only sees
25 spt. The procedure you should use for this install is as follows:
1. init thru drive thru debug
2. run DM in manual mode (DM/M)
3. go to the config menu
4. press S for standard parameters
5. confirm that the parms show as 1023x9x25 and are STANDARD
6. press W to write this configuration
7. return to the main menu
8. go to the partitioning menu
9. create and prepare your partitions
10. exit DM and reboot from the HD
Thank you for your reply. I did get the drive up and running
the previous evening. I still have one question however. Since , Seagate
reports the capacity of this drive as 122.7 MB, is their documentation
in error or is the combination of the DTC-5160 controller and
this drive normal. In other words , would a new RLL controller get
the additional 5MB or this standard for the RLL spec to have
1 track unavailable for use.
Thank you for your help
PS: I am running this combo in an orginal IBM PC-1 (w/ROM bios upgrade)
This machine is <10000 serial number which I purchased when the
PC was first introduced. There's life in the old girl yet.
Not all RLL controllers use spare sectoring. The 5160 does and
this is what is reducing your capacity. As far as the last cyl being
cut off, this always is the case. DM cuts off one cyl for a CE cyl and
I'm moving a Miniscribe 3425 from an XT to an AT (both clones). In the
XT the controller is an Adaptec RLL I'm using a clone of a WD RLL in the
AT clone. What I need are the correct drive parameters for the 3425.
Thanks very much
The parms for the 3425 are: 615x4x17 with a precomp at 300.
This is an IBM standard drive type 2. If you are going to use an RLL
controller, the SPT would be 26 instead of 17, and you should probably
init (low level) the drive thru debug using the controller BIOS and
partition with either Disk Manager as a standard drive, or with FDISK
Help, I don't find my toshiba MK72PCR on the standard drive list
what should I do?
The Toshiba MK72PCR was added to the drive list of the Toshiba
specific version of Disk Manager v4.01. If you have the Toshiba
specific version of Disk Manager (only Toshiba drives listed in the
drive selection menu), then contact sales at (800)752-1333 and inquire
about an upgrade to Toshiba DM v4.01. If you have the generic version
of Disk Manager (all manufactures drives supported), you can add the
MK72PCR to the DMPARMS.OCS file on the diskette, and your version of DM
will then offer this drive as a selection from the menu. The parameters
for the MK72PCR are: 830 cyls, 10 heads, 26 sectors per track, with
write precomp starting at cylinder 512.
hi... been using DM for years... i set up units for resale...
i try NOT to use your DM except for low-level format but recently came
accross a situation where it seemed useful (if i had to load your driver
anyway) to use DMDRVR.BIN... i hesitated but didn't experience any
problems.... THEN !!!! in my infinite wisdow, i decided to redo my OWN
drive with DM to give a 33m/112M setup (using perstor 31 sector
controller with a seagate 4096 drive) to give me more drive names to
access my network... BINGO... all of a sudden stuff won't run...
not enough memory... sure enough to get my big drive DM steals just
under 100K of my precious 640K.... i'm upset... can i relocate ANY of
this stuff to EMS? what are the breakpoints for small but USEFUL
operation? i'm VERY familiar computing cluster size so be technical in
your response... ok?? i can't be the only guy to whom 20K of main
memory is a MAJOR concern... what's up?
When you increase the partition size of a Disk Manager write/read
partition to greater than 32 Meg under DOS 3.x, you are increasing the
sector size as well. It's a trade off. What follows are partition size
vs. sector size breakpoints:
0 - 32 Meg = 512 bytes per sector
32 - 64 Meg = 1k bytes per sector
64 -128 Meg = 2k bytes per sector
128-256 Meg = 4k bytes per sector
256-512 Meg = 8k bytes per sector
What this all means to you is this... When DOS boots up and allocates
it's disk buffer area, there are two factors that go into figuring out
how large that buffer is going to be. The first is your BUFFERS=
statement in your CONFIG.SYS file, the second is the size of the largest
sector in your system. For example: If you have a 30Meg partition, it
has a 512 byte sector size. If you had BUFFERS=20 in your CONFIG.SYS
file, DOS would allocate a 10k disk buffer area, (20 * 512 bytes = 10k).
If sometime down the road you were to add a 100 Meg drive as drive 2 to
the system, and created a Disk Manager write/read partition on it the
covered the entire drive, (all 100Meg in one partition), that partition
would have a 2k sector size. The next time you booted your computer,
DOS would allocate a 40k disk buffer instead of it's normal 10k buffer.
(20 * 2k = 40k). In this case, the solution would be to decrease your
BUFFERS= statement to read BUFFERS=5. (5 * 2k = 10k buffers area).
This would return you to allocating your normal 10k buffer again. As
for your next question: "But my application says I must have BUFFERS=20"
The only thing an application cares about is the physical size of the
buffer it's self. When an application dictates "You must have
BUFFERS=20 in your CONFIG.SYS file", the only thing it's really after is
a 10k buffer. It is falsely assuming that nobody has anything other
than a 512 byte sector size. Reducing your BUFFERS statement to
BUFFERS=5 in this example would create exactly the same 10k buffer that
you had before you added the second drive. So just use the above table
to figure out what your largest sector size in your system would be, and
adjust your BUFFERS statement down accordingly. This will free up your
RAM again, and create the same size buffer that you always had.
I have DM 4.04 running on a Microscience HH-1120, with a little teeny
C: partition and the rest D:. The DOS is MS 4.00. Generally all is
well, and I have experienced no read or write errors. HOWEVER: When
in certain directories, time required for simple file operations (e.g.
COPY) is MUCH longer than in other directories. Fragmentation is not
an issue, and the delay is much longer than you would expect
fragmentation to cause. (Example COPY little file from RAMDISK to
most directorise, maybe 1/4 second; to certain "select" directories,
maybe 3 sec.) What I am suspecting here is that cylinders past 1024
are getting soem kind of special teatment that requires head moves
across the whole disk, or some such. (There were no similar problems
with the prior disk, an ATASI 3085). Controller is WD 1006V-SR2,
motherboard is Micronics 16 MHz 386. Is there anything to be done about
this performance problem? P.S. On ATASI, wasn't using DM, since the
Atasi doesn't have more than 1024 cylinders. Thanks.
There is a one clock cycle overhead for any access of the disk
beyond cyl 1024, but I defy you to be able to detect a single clock
cycle on even a 4.77 Mhz machine, say nothing of your 16 Mhz machine.
One thing you said could have an affect. You mentioned you thought the
drive may be pulling the head all the way across the disk. Could you
clarify this for me? This of course would happen anytime the drive has
to update it's FAT tables, but that would be a very quick access to the
outer tracks. On the other hand, if the drive kind of makes a buzzing
noise when the slowdown occurs, it is doing a retry. When a drive has
to do a retry, it makes no assumptions about where track 0 is in
relation to where the heads are now, and simply steps backward one track
at a time until it finds track 0. Hence the buzzing noise of a retry.
The only reason that I know of that a retry would be occurring is a
defective sector that hasn't been mapped out, or an improper format.
Which bring me to my next question. How did you initialize this drive?
This drive has over 1024 cyls. The 1006v won't init a drive over 1024
cyls thru it's onboard BIOS format routine. And actually, I guess it's
possible that the BIOS on the controller may be confused when it's told
to go beyond cyl 1024. I know this card can go beyond 1024 cyls with
the BIOS disabled though... I would suggest you make sure the BIOS is
disabled on the 1006v-sr2 (make sure there is a jumper on W2) when you
install a drive with greater than 1024 cyls. You would then init the
drive as a non-standard drive thru Disk Manager instead of thru the
controller BIOS. That would get around any questions about the
controller. Also, if the directory that you are copying a file to
already has lots and lots of files in it already, it's going to take
longer. Remember that a subdirectory has it's own DIR file. This DIR
file is like any other file, and when you've got alot of files in one
subdirectory, it takes longer to add another to that subdirectory,
because it has to write out that entire DIR file every time one is added
or deleted. One other thing... Are you using any kind of disk cacheing
programs? A cacheing program on a drive greater than 1024 cyls can do
anything from wrapping around past cyl 1024 and writing on cyl 0 when it
meant to write on cyl 1025 (thus wiping out FAT tables), to simply being
a little slower beyond cyl 1024. In general, Ontrack does not recommend
that you use any kind of disk cacheing programs in combination with Disk
Manager. Especially when SWBIOS is involved. In your case, your 1:1
interleaving controller should make this drive fast enough that cacheing
would become less important anyway.
Thanks for the prompt reply. I did disable the BIOS and use DM
for the format. As for the directory, it's no fuller than back when
I had the Atasi. But you may have hit on something with the cache:
I do have one. Maybe this has something to do with the soft directory
errors I've been getting (by "soft," I mean the dierctory has weird
stuff in it but is just fine after rebooting). After sending you the
question i found the Q&A file to download, and had a fun time perusing
the messages. Since the cache does help even with the 1:1. I'd like to
use one, but maybe will try Super PC-Kwik, since you guys seem to think
it's OK, and I think i recall it getting a top score in some review.
I was just guessing at the head movement--it's the only thing I could
think of that would take that long! First think I'll do here is see
if that directory has any slower access than the others without the
cache. I'll let you know if I learn anything. :-)
If you are using a software cache, I would strongly suggest that
you contact that company and inquire if they are compatible with Disk
Manager and SWBIOS specifically.
I have a Compaq 286/ 12mhz fitted with a 1.2 and 1.44 floppy. It has an
8438 32 mb hd with a WD 1004a-27X controller. I want to control this
drive with an AT type, WD 1006V-SR1. The drive is a MiniScribe. I've
setup the computer with a type 2 drive, ive also tried other types but
to no avail. The computer does not "see" the hd. The system works fine
with the XT controller so I know the hardware works. I have 3 of the AT
controller cards so I dont think any of them is the problem. I've tried
to dynamically format but that doesnt work either. If I use Disk
Manager (V 3.6) it tells me that there is a hardware problem. I've
also used the DM disk to format the CMOS memory but that didnt help
either. Ive also tried jumpering W3 on the board for the secondary
adress...again it didnt work. MY floppies are controlled by the orginal
compaq card which has a serial & parallel port as well as a Winchester
connection which isnt used. The only numbers I can find on the board are
Assy # 000817-001 rev b dated 198 I want to change controllers for
speed and because the XT card uses a portion of RAM which I want freed
up. Any help that you can supply will be greatly appreciated.
Here's what I think is happening with your configuration...
When you had the 27x (an XT 8bit RLL controller) running your 8438, you
had both of your CMOS drive types set to 0 (no drive installed) and your
27x, being a non-AT register set compatible controller, was inserting
it's self at boot time. Everything was fine at that time. Now you have
removed the 27x and replaced it with a 1006V-SR1 (an AT-register set
compatible controller). In order to use this controller, you will have
to set your CMOS drive type for drive 1 to something other than 0 to
tell the system that there is a drive 1. Your existing Compaq
controller is now addressed to the primary address and when the system
comes up, it assumes that this is the controller that the drive is
attached to, (not your 1006V). In order to make this work, you will
have to jumper the existing Compaq controller to the secondary address,
and the 1006V to the primary address. Since your system BIOS ignores
the secondary address, it is as if the HD section of the existing Compaq
controller isn't there at all. (A better choice may have been a
1006V-SR2 which has floppy support, and then you could have removed the
Compaq controller altogether, therefore no conflict would have existed.)
After setting the addresses of your controllers so they don't conflict,
you should follow the following procedure:
1. Set your CMOS drive type for drive 1 to type 2
2. Boot with DOS and run DM/I
3. When DM asks you what model of drive this is, hit ESC for a standard
drive, and tell it that it's a type 2 drive.
4. When DM askes you for the interleave factor, tell it interleave= 1
5. Let DM continue with the install.
Be aware that this is a destuctive process, and that all data on the
drive will be lost, so backup the drive first.
I am setting up an ELS-1 2.0a server on an HP Vectra QS/16S using DMN
3.01. The system has a ST-4144R and WD1006V-SR1 F005. I can't
seem to find a bios disk type # that will allow the system to boot
without a config or hard drive error. If I hit F-1 and continue the
boot, the system works fine. I have low leveled with DMN and bios, I
have let DM set the type, I have set the type manually, but still no
luck.I am a dealer and would gladly hit F-1 and use the server that way,
but I think my customer would get nervous!
Is the BIOS enabled on the 1006V-SR1? (Jumper removed from W2).
If so, your CMOS drive type should be set to type 1 and you should
low-level format the drive thru the controller BIOS using debug, and use
Disk Manager-N to create and prepare the NetWare partition only as a
standard drive. If the BIOS on the 1006V-SR1 is disabled (jumper on
W2), then you should be low-level formatting thru DMN as a nonstandard
drive. When you have the BIOS on this controller enabled and your CMOS
drive type set to type 1, the drive table in your system BIOS will be
replaced with the drive table in the controller BIOS. If you have the
controller BIOS disabled, your system BIOS drive table is used, and
unless you have a drive type of 1024x9x26, this would be a nonstandard
drive. What appears to be happening here is this: The ST4144R does not
want write precomp at all. In fact, it will error out if you are set to
a drive type that has write precomp. You're right, it's no big problem,
you can just hit F1 and proceed with the boot, but it's a pain and
doesn't look very good. In order to get around the problem, you should
try either one of the following procedures:
1. Enable the BIOS on your controller by removing jumper W2.
2. Set your CMOS drive type to type 1.
3. Run debug and enter G=CC00:5 at the hyphen prompt.
4. If the 4144R is one of the default selections from within the
controller low-level routine, select it. Otherwise manually specify
the parameters of the drive as: 1024 cyls, 9 hds, NO write precomp.
5. Low-level format the drive and then enter the bad tracks.
6. Boot with DOS and run DMN in manual mode (DMN/M).
7. Confirm that the parameters are STANDARD 1023 x 9 x 26.
8. Press F6 to create your NetWare partition.
9. Press F7 to prepare the partition. After at least one pass, hit
ESC to stop the preparation.
10. Proceed with a completely standard NetWare install. (No MODUTILS or
DMN/I are needed).
If this procedure gives you the same results, then try the other method:
1. Disable the controller BIOS by placing a jumper on W2.
2. Select a system CMOS drive type that has less cylinders and heads
than your drive and that has NO write precomp. (IBM standard drive
types 6,8,10,11,or 12 would all fit this description. Consult your
computer's documentation for further info.)
3. Run DMN in manual mode, press F3 and select the 4144R.
4. Press F4 to enter the bad tracks.
5. Press F5 to initialize the drive.
6. Press F6 to create the NetWare partition.
7. Press F7 to prepare that partiton, ESC after 1 pass.
8. If upon exit of DMN it offers to change your CMOS drive type, answer
NO to prevent it from selecting a different one.
9. Since you are doing a nonstandard install in this case, you will
have to run MODUTILS to modify your NetWare to accept a nonstandard
drive. DMN/I is also appropriate whenever you reboot or COMMAND.COM
10. Proceed with your NetWare install as normal.
One of these methods should be able to prevent your error message upon
booting the server. If one doesn't work then try the other, but don't
mix and match from both procedures. You must stick to one or the other.
(Or you could always just hit the F1 key....)
I tried both using the BIOS on the WD1006 and DMN lowlevel and both
formatted the disk fine. I still encountered the setup error on boot.
About the time I was thiking of a way to convince my customer that disk
error, hit F1 to continue was normal, my cohort handed me a FAX from HP.
It seems that they upgraded the BIOS recently, and the /C setup option
now actually *works*! There is still a 1024 cyl limit, but everything
else is fine. Thanks for your help!
Glad to hear that you got it figured out. What is the "/C
setup option" on the HP that you spoke about, and how did it not work?
I still think that the error you were getting was due to sending the
drive write precomp at boot time before the DMN supplied nonstandard
parameters had a chance to kick in.
Greetings. This seems to be my week for Ontrack. I am reinstalling an
old copy of Novell ELS Netware 2.0a, Level 1. Several years ago I
installed this software for a system with an Adaptec 2372 RLL controller
using Disk Manager-N. My old notes show that Netware files
install, net$os, and prepare required a patch: b96400baf701 to
b90002baf701. Since that time I have acquired an update to Disk
Manager-N, Ver 2.43. I an now installing the same ELS 2.0a
software using a DTC 7287 RLL board and Micropolis 1335 drives. Should
the same patch be made to the Novell files?
I also own a copy of NetUtils, Ver 1.2. I will soon be
installing either Adv. Netware 286 or Netware 386. Should I consider an
update to from Disk Manager-N Ver 2.43 and NetUtils Ver 1.2 when I
upgrade my network?
Also, the new network will utilize mirrored Imprimis WREN VII drives. I
am considering using a Future Domain controller, or an IPC caching
controller. Do you know of any problems with the WREN VII and the
Future Domain 885 or the Perceptive Solutions 1600? Will they work with
Disk Manager-N? Would you suggest other alternatives for disk storage?
Thanks for your help.
Your recent help with a Western Digital controller and a WREN VI worked
perfectly. I am noticing a mysterious difference in speed with Coretest
depending on the parameters I set up in a stacks command for SuperPCKwik
cacheing. Are there preferred parameters using a drive with physical
parameters of 53 SPT which is translated to 63 SPT by the WD controller?
The patch that you made to ELS Level 1 v2.0a when you were
using the Adaptec controller is the same patch that you would make if
you were installing a nonstandard drive under DMN. When using DMN and
ELS Level 1 v2.0a with a nonstandard drive, this patch is accomplished
by running the MODUTILS program on the DMN diskette, not by patching
it by hand. Whether or not you will need to use MODUTILS with your
install using the DTC controller depends on whether or not you are
installing these drives as standard. If you low-level format these
drive thru the DTC controller BIOS using debug, they will appear as
standard drives from that point on and you wouldn't need to patch your
NetWare for a nonstandard drive.
Whether or not you will need to upgrade your DMN when you upgrade your
NetWare depends on what version of ADV NetWare 286 you are talking
about, (2.0a, 2.10, 2.11, 2.12, 2.15, 2.15a, 2.15b, 2.15c, etc...),
and whether or not this is the same server you are making all of these
changes to and not multiple servers (DMN is licensed for one copy per
server). When you are putting a new server together, you must
purchase a new copy of DMN. If you are upgrading your NetWare on an
existing server, you may have to upgrade your DMN as well (by paying a
small charge to upgrade your existing copy of DMN, not by purchasing a
second copy). You would only need to upgrade your DMN in this case if
the upgraded NetWare that you are installing on your existing server
is a version that is not already supported by the version of DMN that
you used originally. Which brings me to the next question, why did
you upgrade from v2.30 to v2.43 when v2.30 was already working on this
server under the same version of ELS level 1 v2.0a? Leave me more
detailed info about what is really happening here, (same server or
different server), and what exact version (including revision letter)
of NetWare you will be installing, and I would be able to determine if
you need to upgrade your DMN, if the same version would work, or
whether you would need to purchase a whole new copy of DMN.
The answer to your questions about the WREN VII drives and SCSI host
adapters depends on whether or not you can get VADDs (Value Added
Device Drivers) to support the particular host adapter that you
choose. VADDs are host adapter specific, so the same one wouldn't
work on two different brands of host adapters. You can link that same
VADD into DMN versions 3.01 and above, and DMN will then be able to
communicate with your host adapter.
Your last question is rather confusing. If you have a 53spt drive, it
does no good to use the 63spt translation on the WD1007V. The 63spt
translation is not enough to get the drive to appear as having less
than 1024 cyls, so it does no good. I would also understand if
Coretest results were thrown off when using a translation mode.
Will Diskmanager-N let me use/configure Novell/286 ELS Level 1 and a
RLL controller board?
Thanks very much?
In general, the answer to your question is yes. DM-N will
allow you to install a RLL drive under ELS level 1. However, with no
more information than you left me, I cannot absolutely guarantee that
it won't go without a hitch. There are controllers that simply are not
Novell compatible, and ELS level 1 v2.0a won't support a drive greater
than 1024 cylinders.
I have a tech support question. I have two hard disks using wd1006-sr2.
They are toshiba mk72 (110M) and microscience hh 1120 (122Mb). mk 72 is
low level formatted using debug, hh 1120 is low level formatted usign
swbios and dm/m. both are partitioned by fdisk (dos 3.3).
the logical drive designations are , mk-72 c:(33Mb) d: (33Mb) e: (33Mb)
and f: (10Mb); hh-1120 g: (33Mb) h: (30Mb) i:(30Mb) j:(30Mb). logical
drive J is located beyond sector 1024. I have noticed copying files to
and from J: is very slow, compared to other logical drives, e.x. copying
10Mb for d: to h: takes about 4 minutes, copying from d: to J: takes
more than 15 minutes!!! Obviously sector translations is the culprit,
but why should it be a 300%+ penalty in speed, 10%-20% slow-down would
be quite acceptible.
What you may be experiencing is a conflict between the BIOS
on the 1006 and DMDRVR/SWBIOS when accessing the portion of your disk
beyond cylinder 1024. The WD1006-SR2 on-board BIOS won't directly
support a drive with greater than 1024 cylinders, but if you disable
the BIOS on the 1006 and install the drive as nonstandard through DM it
works fine. Since you have installed the 1120 with DM as a nonstandard
drive and are using SWBIOS, but still have the BIOS enabled on the
1006, the BIOS on the 1006 may be getting in SWBIOS's way.
In general, the rules are as follows: If you have the BIOS on your
controller enabled, then you must low-level format through the
controller BIOS using debug, and partition the drives only (as standard
drives) through Disk Manager. If you are going to install the drives
as nonstandard with Disk Manager, then you must first disable the BIOS
on the controller in order to avoid conflicts.
Since the 1006-SR2 BIOS won't support a drive greater than 1024
cylinders, the first method won't provide you with full capacity on
your HH1120. In light of this, what I would suggest that you do is to
disable the BIOS on the 1006 by placing a jumper on W2, then re-install
both drives as nonstandard using Disk Manager. One drawback in using
this method will be that chances are you don't have a CMOS drive type
with 26 sectors per track. If you don't, you will have to keep the
following in mind: A DOS partition only utilizes the standard portion
of the drive. If you don't have a CMOS drive type with 26 sectors per
track, your drive C: will only be using 17 out of 26 sectors per track.
When installing both drives as nonstandard, you will have to keep your
drive C: very small in order to avoid wasting space. Disk Manager
write/read partitions utilize the full geometry of the drive, so all
other partitions other than your boot partition (C:) should be Disk
Manager write/read partitions.
Regarding your question about Windows 3.0 hanging at boot time:
This is a well know problem and the workaround for this situation is
posted on this BBS in bulletin number 12. I see from the caller log
that you did read bulletin number 12 after posting your message. I
hope it cleared up your questions.
I've got a Toshiba MK56B drive and am planning on using it with a WD
1006 RLL HDD only controller. Does Ontrack have software made for the
Toshiba--and if so, how can I get it and how much is it? Thanks.
Both the generic version 4.20 of Disk Manager, and v4.20 manufactured
for Toshiba drives only, directly support the MK56. You called it a
MK56B, in Disk Manager generic it's called a MK-56F-R, and in the
Toshiba only version it's called a MK56FB. But in all cases the drive
is actually 830 cyls by 10 heads by 26 spt.
The generic version of Disk Manager that will install any drive, is
available thru our sales department (800-752-1333), or from most any
computer dealer. The Toshiba only version is only available from
HAVING TROUBLE GETTING THE FULL 40 MEG OUT OF MY NEWLY ADDED
250R SEAGATE HD. IT ONLY FORMATS TO 33 MEG. I'M USING MS-DOS 4.01 AND
HAVE TRIED BOTH THE DEBUG AND AT ANOTHER TIME, THE DISKMANAGER TO SET UP
THIS NEW DRIVE,...BUT WITHOUT SUCCESS BEYOND THE 33 MEG LEVEL.
CAlled seagate, and they said the Adaptec needed to be reconfigured.
Called Adaptec,...they say that the 7072 has been obsoleted and no-one
there can help with tech. support on that item. Called the dealer,
no-one in tech support is able to remedy the situation and has
no other suggestions. Is it possible that I'm not getting the 31
sectors per track formatting that I should? Looks like I'm only getting
25 sectors formated per track. How can that be changed?
First of all, I don't have any info on an Adaptec 7072 controller. If
by chance you mistyped the model number and really meant a 2072, then
I've got a little info, (very little), and it is shown below in it's
2072 Adaptec ST506, 8 bit RLL. Single drive per card, multiple cards
per computer. Won't support non-standard parms. Debug g=c800:ccc
Not much to go on... I do indeed have the ST250R listed as being able
to support up to 31 spt, but it would be up to the controller to
actually give you that spt value. Most RLL controllers only go up to
26 spt. I don't know if this controller is going to be able to support
31 spt or not. The only chance you would have is to initialize (low-
level format) the drive thru the controller BIOS using debug (the entry
address is shown above). You may then be able to enter the parameters
of the drive thru that low-level format routine. You would then have
to handle the drive as standard with DM after that. Your best bet is
to contact Seagate again and ask them what controller they recommend
that you use with this drive in order to get 31 spt.
I recently purchased a Toshiba MK-134 hard drive and a Western Digital
WD1004-27X disk controller board from Hard Drive Internation. I
installed these in an AT&T PC6300 operating the AT&T version of MS-DOS
version 3.1. I installed the hard drive and board in my computer and
used the Disk Manager program to partition the hard drive. Although the
drive appeared to function normay initially I have had periodic problems
with damaged files. I reinstalled the drive using MS-DOS version 3.3
to partition the hard disk and have not had problems but generic MS-DOS
does not fully support the functions of the AT&T PC6300. I have sent
Ontrack Computer Systems Technical Service Department a letter outlining
these problems in more detail. The problems appear to be related to an
incompatibility between the Disk Manager Software, AT&T DOS 3.1 and
perhaps the BIOS in my AT&T PC6300. I would appreciate any help you can
provide me in resolving these problems. You may either call me at
708-858-6154 or leave your reponse on the bulletin board. Thank you fo
your help. (The Disk Manager Software was invoked using the /2
In general, there are no other known problems with AT&T DOS 3.1 except
that even though it identifies itself as 3.x DOS, it uses 2.x DOS
formatting rules, (thus the /2 switch in DM). This is not surprising
in light of the fact that the AT&T 6300 also identifies itself as an AT
class machine, but is in actuality a XT class machine, (thus the /P
switch in DM). The only other odd thing that we have noted is; if you
boot from a floppy, it won't see the DOS boot partition at all, (trying
to go to C: will give you an "Invalid drive specification" message).
Other than these strange quirks, we have had no other reports of
problems with AT&T DOS 3.1. How did you low-level format this drive?
With the WD1004-27X, you are best off low-level formatting thru the
controller BIOS using debug, and dynamically configure the drive. You
can then use Disk Manager to partition the drive only as a standard
Disk was formated using DEBUG and dynamically
configured. "/2" was used but "/p" was not since help files indicate
that "/p" is to be used with a PC6300Plus but says nothing about using
it with a PC6300. Shoud I have used it?
Also Hard Drives International literature indicates that a "/b" should
be used. What does this do? I have not been able to find the
explaination in the help files.
The /P switch in Disk Manager tells DM that this machine will try to
pass itself off as an AT, but it's not, it's an XT, so don't try to set
CMOS to the correct drive type as it would in an AT. I don't know the
difference between the PC6300 and the PC6300 plus. The /P switch may
no longer be necessary. In any event, if you are able to run Disk
Manager on this machine without it trying to set CMOS, then AT&T must
have changed the machines identification byte to reflect an XT and the
/P switch would only be redundant. The /B switch is for Seagate
versions of Disk Manager only. It tells the Seagate version of Disk
Manager to bypass the low-level format of the drive. It is not
applicable with any other version of Disk Manager. Hard Drives
International was incorrect in telling you to use it. If you have low-
level formatted this drive thru the controller BIOS, then Disk Manager
should be showing the drive as being STANDARD with the correct
parameters, and you would be using Disk Manager to partition the drive
only. If MSDOS 3.3 works OK, then this means you set it up correctly.
AT&T DOS has historically had several strange quirks, but Disk Manager
has been able to get along with it just fine. The applications that
you are using may not be. I would stick with MSDOS 3.3 even though it
doesn't see the battery backed up clock.
I am trying to install a Microscience HH1120
Everything is fine untill boot up, where nothing happens just a bl
blinking cursor forever. I run a 386sx clone with an AMI BIOS,DTC 5287
controller,MSDOS 4.01, two floppies , VGA. I got a non system
disk or disk error message with dm formatting the boot partition so
I used dos' format /s and was able to boot until copied the
DMDRVR.BIN and your config files. Then nothing. I have DM
ver3.3 that came with drive. Please help.
First of all, Disk Manager v3.3 is not compatible with DOS v4.01. You
will need to contact sales (800-752-1333) and upgrade to the current
version of Disk Manager in order to run DOS v4.01. This is why the
system hangs at boot time after you install DMDRVR. Secondly, my
information shows that with the DTC 5287, you must set your CMOS drive
types to 0-(not installed), and then low-level format the drive with
the routine within the controller's BIOS (accessed thru debug). You
would then be able to partition the drive, (as a STANDARD drive), with
I am having a problem with Win 3.0 Smartdrive.sys, but I don't know if
it is related to DMDRVR.SYS or not. I have two hard disks, a Seagate
ST271 65 MB and a Seagate ST238 30 Mb. The 65 Mb drive is partitioned
using 3Mb C: and a 62 Mb E: with DMDRVR. The 30 Mb drive is D: and just
uses the FDisk standard DOS format. I have V4.0 of DM. When I try to
use Smartdrv.sys with Win 3.0, I cannot run most of the programs on
drive D:, I get an "error reading sector xxx, abort, retry, or fail"
message. Windows is installed on drive E:, and seems to work fine.
This error occurs outside of windows at the dos prompt and goes away
if I take Smartdrv.sys out of config.sys. Any suggestions?
The problems you describe are being caused by SMARTDRIVE.SYS 's
inability to work on drives with a sector or head mismatch or drives
over 1024 cylinders. You can verify this by invoking Disk Manager in the
manual mode (DM/M) and looking at the configuration menu, press (c) from
the main menu... if the info between the two horizontal lines says
parameters are now replaced drive x is set up as 614 x 4 x 17 but is
actually 820 x 6 x 26 then you fall into the category of head and
and sector mismatch You should STOP using smartdrive.sys right away
or risk severe data corruption... MicroSoft has acknowledged the
probelms and promises a permanent fix in the future to be provided
free to those customers effected.. also this phone # for further tech
support on this issue (206) 454-2030 (MicroSoft)
After entering the switch command suggested in Bulletin #12 I was able to
get Windows to function in the 386 Enhanced mode. I am running SWBIOS
as I am using 1072 cyl imprimis dr configured with perstor 180 16 bit at
31 sectors pushing 83meg MFM drive to 153meg. Thanks for staying on top
of it. I'd like to get a copy of your new vs of swbios (xbios). My OEM
distributor does not have it. Incidentally, I am a system builder.
MicroSoft has made a public statement about the problems with nonstandard
disk drives and drives over 1024 cyls and say they are working on a new
smartdrive and other support files that will be able to work in the non-
standard enviornment. They also said they will provide the update free to
those customers that are affected... if you need more info they provided
this phone # for support (206) 454-2030 as for xbios the only way to get
a copy is to up-grade your exsisting version to our current generic
product DM 4.20 our sales staff can arrange this for you (800-752-1333)
I purchased Disk Manager 4.03 (but received 4.02) and DOSutils a couple
of months ago.
What's the difference between 4.03(02) and 4.20? Can I upgrade?
Next subject - "NON"-destructive initialization. I used my DOSutils to
perform a "NON"-desctructive hard drive initialization on my 65 meg
Microscience HH-1060 a few days ago.
Before performing the task, DNA offered me an interleave of 3, so I
naturally changed the choice to a 1. Strange that a utility as
sophisticated as that would offer to initialize at that interleave
factor - especially on an RLL. The controller I use is a WD 1006V-SR2.
The drive and controller are quite nicely matched.
Anyway, I carefully chose "NON"-destructive initialization. When the
initialization was complete I had a totally empty drive - notta. Not
only that, it would partition to only 15M.
So, I used the ROM program on the controller to redo the initialization
and everything was fine. Fortunately, I had a complete back-up - but
still, a lot of time was wasted in the process.
Any idea why a "NON"-destructive initialization would do such a
terrible thing as to send ALL the data on the drive to bit-heaven?
You asked several questions, so I'll try to answer them in order.
Version 4.03 of Disk Manager unfortunately displayed the wrong version
number of 4.02. Actually, you do indeed have version 4.03. The only
difference between v4.02 and v4.03 is more drives are available for
selection from within the configuration menu. The actual program files
of the two versions are identical. Version 4.20 on the other hand, is
radically different than the previous two versions. It has a "new and
improved" method of handling drive with greater than 1024 cylinders.
This improvement takes the form of an overlay file called XBIOS that
replaces our original SWBIOS that used to handle this function. V4.20
also knows how to correctly handle many IDE drives. You may upgrade to
version 4.20 of Disk Manager by contacting our sales department at
As far as the default interleave of 3:1 from within Dosutils goes: If
you don't run the data transfer test immediately prior to running the
nondestructive low-level function, Dosutils has no idea what the most
efficient interleave would be, so it defaults to a safe interleave of
3:1. If you run the data transfer tests first, (make sure you have the
testing range set to the CE cylinder only during the data transfer rate
test), the nondestructive interleave function will then default to your
most efficient interleave.
What seems to have occurred with your destructive "nondestructive
format" is as follows: You must have originally low-level formatted
this drive through the controller BIOS and defined the parameters of
the drive at that time. At that point the RLL controller would write
the parameters of the drive out to the drive itself. It does this so
it can read those parameters from the drive at boot time, and make the
drive appear to be "standard" to the system. When the drive was
"nondestructively" re-low-leveled, those parameters that the controller
wrote to the drive seem to have been lost. How this could have
happened is; When a RLL controller lays out 26 sectors on a track,
there is often a slack unused space at the end of the 26th sector.
This small area on each track remains unused in most cases, but some
RLL controllers use this area, (usually at the end of one of the tracks
of cylinder zero), to store their configuration data. Unfortunately,
when you send the command to the controller to initialize a track, it
does just that. The entire track gets zeroed out. So, even after
Dosutils laid the 26 sectors of data back down on that track, the slack
space at the end was lost. Therefore the configuration information
that the controller originally wrote in that slack area was lost, and
the controller no longer knew what kind of drive was attached to it.
Your data was still physically on the drive, but since the
configuration information was lost, you couldn't get to it. The only
way to prevent this from happening is to refrain from initializing,
(either destructively or nondestructively), cylinder zero of your
drive. You can do this by choosing "Select Testing Range" from within
DNA, and set it to start at cylinder 1 and end at the last cylinder of
your drive, rather than leaving it set to the default of cylinder 0 to
the end of your drive. You can then safely "nondestructively" re-low-
level format your drive without the fear of this happening again.
I appreciate your comprehensive reply to my question about how my RLL
drive was destroyed by your "non-destructive" initialization.
Unfortunately, knowing how it happened does not excuse the fact that it
It is not reasonable to offer a "non-destructive" initialization that
will, under NORMAL CONDITIONS effectively destroy all the data on an
My system was configured correctly. RLL controllers are hardly rare -
especially Western Digital ones.
You might want to respond that if I'd have originally initialized the
drive using Disk Manager, it wouldn't have happened. That is not
reasonable. Disk Manager was not necessary, nor advantageous for that
Additionally, I tried Disk Manager and it didn't work. I'm sure I could
have called you folks and somehow worked out a way to make DM work with
the controller, BIOS and drive I have - but why bother? WD's support is
You guys have some powerful utilities - but they can be extremely
destructive - not only in the hands of the inexperienced, but in the
hands of people experienced enough to expect you to take reasonable
steps to prevent unintentional destruction of data.
The same holds true for the other comment I had - that your DOSUtils
initializer defaults to an interleave of 3. The explanation is that it
can't know the optimum interleave without the user running a data
transfer rate test first.
That makes sense to you, but what about the user? How could a typical
user anticipate that? Other non-destructive disk initializers don't
default to an interleave of 3 on an RLL. IAU (shareware) and SpinRite
I expect MORE from Ontrack. You guys are supposed to be the experts.
Can't you find someone to take the versatality and power of your
utilities and create a reasonable user interface?
Of course there's always the risk of losing data when using utilities of
this type, but no one expects to lose data when they've done everything
Thanks for listening - and please consider these suggestions - they
could help Ontrack make front page news.
Thank you for your comments about the user interface of Dosutils.
They are being taken into consideration by the engineering department.
I think it is important though to say that the situation that you had,
(or at least the scenario that I described), with the controller using
the "slack space" at the end of the track, (beyond the 26th sector), to
store configuration information, and Dosutils not being able to write
that information back out there, is a universal problem. No piece of
software, whether it be Dosutils, or anybody else that offers a
"nondestructive" low-level re-format, can write to that slack space.
Only the controller card itself can do that. The problem is that the
controller actually did a complete track reformat, effectively zeroing
out the entire track, and then only allowed the software to write to
the 26 data sectors, and not the "slack space" at the end of the track.
The controller should have either protected the "slack space" that it
was using to store it's configuration information and not zeroed it out
when it executed the "format track" command that Dosutils issued, or
needs to give us a mechanism of reading and writing to the "slack
space" directly so we could have preserved it. The only possible
software level solution to this problem would be larger warning
messages about the possibility of it happening when using a controller
with a BIOS. This is definitely being considered for future releases
of Dosutils, and again, thank you for your comments.
I'm having a problem with a (very old!) Miniscribe 3675 60MB RLL drive.
I know the flashing LED's are an error code indication of some sort,
but can't seem to find where I read that particular bit of lore.
I'm getting 1 long, 4 short, 1 long 4 short. Any idea as to what
that means? Is it fatal, or can I resurrect it? Thanks!
I think that the 1 long, 4 short flashing error code on the Miniscribe
3675's LED means that the drive can't find it's track zero, (therefore
it's not going to be able to do much of anything else either), but I'm
not sure. Miniscribe would be a better source of information on that
one. Basically, the drive is dead. If you are interested in
recovering data from it, you should contact our Data Recovery
department at (800)TRACK99, (800-872-2599). Otherwise, you will need
to get the drive repaired or replaced.
Problem: Attempting to install two drives into a Sanyo 885 (XT
compatible.) DOS Ver.3.3. WD1004-27X controller. Drive #1 =
Mitsubishi MR535. Drive #2 = Miniscribe 8438. I am using a twisted
cable set, and have set both drives to drive select 2, and have removed
the terminating resitor pack on the miniscribe (attached to the middle
of the cable.) Installing with DM Ver. 4.2 generic. After following
the instructions on the screen, when it gets to setting up the #1 drive
and Mitsubishi MR535 is selected, the program indicates that I am trying
to set up two dissimilar drives, and to check the controller card
** specified dissimilar drives, but sees similar drives **
settings. [the card is set with no jumpers, except the translation mode
is disable; jumper off #25, and on #26. All others are off.] Both
drives appear to the program as having specs of the miniscribe. The
MR535 will set up just fine, if it is the only drive. What am I doing
wrong? Any suggestions will be appreciated.
In general, with the WD1004-27X, you are best off low-level formatting,
(initializing), the disk through the controller's onboard BIOS routine,
accessed through DEBUG. After doing this, the drives will appear to
the system as being "standard" drives, and you would use Disk Manager
to partition them only. Complete instructions for the low-level format
using the controller BIOS of this card may be found in bulletin #4 on
I HAVE A MODEL ST4144R HARD DRIVE AND I NEED SOME HELP WITH PARTITIONING
THE DRIVE. I AM USING DISK MANAGER V3.5. I HAVE SELECTED PARTITION
OPTION A FOR .9 AND 121.6 MEG PARTITIONS. MY .9 BOOT PARTITION IS GIVEN
LOGICAL DRIVE C: AND IS IN WORKING ORDER WITH DOS 4.01 BUT I CAN NOT
ACCESS THE LARGE PARTITION AS DRIVE D: OR OTHERWISE. IT HAS BEEN
PARTITIONED AS READ/WRITE ONLY AND SEEMS TO BE PREPARED CORRECTLY WITH
DISK MANAGER BUT I CAN'T USE THE SPACE. PLEASE ADVISE.
Disk Manager v3.5 was not compatible with DOS v4.01. You will need to
upgrade your Disk Manager to v4.0 or above. To do this, you should
contact our sales department at (800)752-1333 and request an upgrade to
your Disk Manager.
I am having a problem with Disk Manager and my Mitsubishi RLL drive.
The controller is a WD 1006 V SR2, the drive a MR535. The combination
has worked well for ca 3 mo after purchase from HDI. Now, suddenly, the
system (DOS 3.1 on a Sperry PC/IT) cannot find either drive C: or D:.
An attempt to boot gives error F005, boot sector not present. All
attempts to access via the system get "invalid drive specifier" or words
to that effect. The truly funny part of it is that the ROM on the WD
controller will find and verify all 977 tracks: DM's verify function
will do the same thing (only faster). So both the card and DM using
system functions can apparently see the disk, but on boot, it isn't
there. I have set and reset the configuration using SETUP, the
controller, and DM. The disk is 65MB, and needs custom parameters: but
the configuration info changes when I change it, and is correct. In
addition, DM accurately recognizes the isk when it says "this drive is
X, and is configured as X". So ??????? Do you have any idea why my
disk is inaccessible? I am very interested in getting access without
reformatting because of irreplaceable data (have you heard this
before?). Oh, one possibly informative symptom is that though I have a
correct config.sys, AND dmdrvr.bin on my boot floppy, the DM logo never
comes up. Thanks for any light you can throw my way...
It sounds like something has overwritten your partition table. If you
know the exact starting and ending cylinders for each partition, you
can go into Disk Manager's partitioning menu and recreate them. If
they come back with a name/version of "Nosystem" then write the
partition back to disk, but don't re-prepare the partitions, and you
should have access to your data again. If this procedure doesn't work,
then your best bet would be to call our Data Recovery Department at
(800)872-2599. If the data has not been physically overwritten, they
should be able to recover it for you.
Thanks for your suggestion about recreating my partition table
by manually entering cylinder numbers. However, I don't have the
cylinder numbers. I'm fairly sure, however, that I used DM's default
partitions (32 Meg + the rest) when the disk was originally set up. Is
there a way of calculating what DM would have used for my Mitsubishi 535
disk (WD 1006V SR2 Rll controller)?
The MR535 has 977 cylinders, 5 heads, and if you are using a RLL
controller, 26 sectors per track. If you take 5 heads * 26 sectors per
track * 512 bytes per sector, you get 66560 bytes per cylinder. 32 Meg
(32*1024*1024) = 33554432 bytes. 33554432 bytes / 66560 bytes per
cylinder = 504.12 cylinders (round down to 504). So, your first
partition, if it was EXACTLY 32 Meg, would be 504 cylinders, (0 thru
503). Try starting with this value, and if the first partition does
not come back with a name/version of something other than "unprepared",
then try adjusting it by a few cylinders in each direction, (it should
come back with a name/version of "DOS" and your DOS version number. If
whatever overwrote your partition table also overwrote the BIOS
parameter block of the first partition, then the first partition will
never come back as anything other than "unprepared". In this case, you
might be better off trying to create your second partition first.
Start it at cylinder 504 and go to the end of the drive. Again, if it
doesn't come back as "nosystem", then play around with the starting
cylinder. Once you have the second partition showing up as "nosystem",
then the ending cylinder of the first partition is one less than the
starting cylinder of the second partition. (And if all else fails,
don't forget the Data Recovery Dept.)
Thanks 10^6. Regenerating my partition table solved my whole problem.
Now if I only knew how it got wiped out... Thanks again in any
I have a question about using the ONTRACK software. I have version 4.03
and am using a 386SC computer with a WD 1006v-SR2 controller with a
MICROSCIENCE HH1120 122 meg HD. After I use the ONTRACK to partition
and format the drive I get two partitions with 2 meg and 118 meg. I am
usingZenith DOS 4.0. After ONTRACK gets done doing its thing I can do a
CHKDSK on the small partition of the HD but when I do a CHKDSK on the
larger partition i get a dos meggage INVALID MEDIA TYPE. Is this being
caused buy something in ONTRACK or the Zenith DOS. The machine will
boot from the HD and will utilize the D: drive which is the 118 meg
partition. Files can be copied back and forth between the floppies and
the C: partition. If you do a DIR on the D: drive you get the files and
then the DOS amount left on the drive which comes to about 118,000,000
When I first installed ONTRACK i use the command line DM /c/z/i/4 and
make a 1:1; interleave. However when I used this command to do the
automatic partitioning I was always greeted a message CONTROL
FILE SYSTAN ERROR. I tried to partition again and got he same message.
When I used the command line DM /c/i/4 and then partitioned I did not
get this message and the drive did the correct partitioning and
formatting. However I still cannot do a CHKDSK. Any solution to this
Also I called WD about another question with the RLL controller board
and they said that I should disable the online BIOS on the RLL card. I
did this and the HD would not boot. After I replaced the jumper the HD
booted. Any thoughts on this?
The DOS 4.x CHKDSK program has historically had this problem. If you
go into the B)ulletins menu from the main menu of this BBS, you will
find that bulletin #7 addresses this problem. It is a patch that you
can apply to standard Microsoft MS-DOS v4.01. Since Zenith DOS has
historically been a bit less than standard... (gross understatement),
this same patch probably won't work with it's version of CHKDSK. Give
it a try though, and let me know if it works or not. If it doesn't,
then ZIP up your CHKDSK.COM program, and upload it to me on the BBS.
I'll try to take a look at it and see if I can figure out where the
As for your BIOS on the card being enabled or not; This is a multiple
choice question that has more than one correct answer. If you leave
the BIOS enabled on your controller, then you should low-level format
the drive through the controller BIOS's low-level formatting routine,
(accessed from debug, G=CC00:5 with the 1006), and use Disk Manager to
partition the drive only, as a "standard" drive, (or use FDISK). If
you disable the BIOS on your controller, you can use Disk Manager to do
the whole job, (In fact you must, because FDISK will probably only see
17 sectors per track if the BIOS is disabled). So in your case, if
this drive was formatted with the BIOS enabled, and was running, and
then you disabled the BIOS... Yes, it would quit running, until you
reformatted it using the alternate procedure.
tHANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE. WILL DOWNLOAD THE PATCH AND SEE IF IT WORKS.
I REDID MY MICROSCIENCE HH1120 AND DISABLED THE BIOS ON THE WD
CONTROLLER CARD. I SEEMED TO GET MORE DISK SPACE THAT WHEN I USED THE
WD CARD WITH THE BIOS ENABLED. ON TRACK DID ITS THING AND GAVE ME ABOUT
120+ MEG FOR THE DRIVE.
i HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION OR ACTUALLY A COUPLE OF THEM.
1. sHOULD I USE THE SWBIOS AGAIN IN THE AUTOEXEC.BAT FILE OR IS THIS
JUST SOMETHING THAT I HAVE TO USE WHEN I FIRST DO THE ONTRACK
CONFIGURATION OF THE DRIVE? I DO NOT SEE WHERE IT IS COPIED OVER WHEN
THE ONTRACK SOFTWARE COPIES THE SYSTEM FILES OVER TO THE HARD DRIVE.
2. AFTER DISK MANAGER GETS DONE WITH THE DRIVE I DO NOT HAVE TO TOUCH
THE ZENITH PART COMMAND AS IT IS NOT GIVING ME THE CORRECT PARTITION
SIZES WHEN IT IS RUN.
THANKS FOR THE HELP. I READ THE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ON THE TEXT FILE
I DOWNLOADED LAST NIGHT AND I RAN ACROSS THE QUESTION THAT I ASKED AND I
SORT OF FIGURED OUT THAT I NEEDED TO DISABLE THE BIOS ON THE WD CARD.
SHOULD THE CACHE ALSO BE DISABLED AS I READ ON SOME MESSAGES THAT CACHE
SHOULD NOT BE USED OR IS THIS ONLY SOFTWARE CACHE?
Also, I tried your patch in the bulletins section for the Zenith CHKDSK.COM
file but I still got the INVALID MEDIA TYPE error. As far as I can tell
the DEBUG came back with the "74" as it should as stated in the patch
but still did not work. Any way I have uploaded Zenith 4.0 CHKDSK.COM
file for you to take a look at. Redid the drive and it all seems fine
now except for the CHKDSK.
You only need to run SWBIOS once; Just prior to running DM to format
your drive. Once the drive is set up, you don't need to run it again,
either manually or in the AUTOEXEC.BAT file. In fact it doesn't even
have to be on your hard disk. DMDRVR.BIN has the SWBIOS code within
it, and it automatically takes care of drives with greater than 1024
cylinders by itself. (Of course this can only work correctly when you
boot from the hard disk, and you have DEVICE=DMDRVR.BIN in the
CONFIG.SYS file, and CONFIG.SYS and DMDRVR.BIN both exist in the root
directory of the hard disk.)
As for your question about Zenith's PART command; Don't use it! It is
the equivalent of FDISK, and like FDISK it does not understand drives
with greater than 1024 cylinders. It has the potential of messing up
your partition table.
I took a quick look at your CHKDSK.COM file. There is in fact 74 at
offset 37CE. I just wanted to double check with you before I spent a
lot of time looking further, that you understood the patch procedure.
It is as follows:
C:\DOS>debug chkdsk.com <hit enter>
-ecs:37ce <hit enter>
debug should then respond with:
The value at offset 37CE should be 74, and the cursor should be
flashing just after the period after 74. If it is, just type in EB
where the cursor is now, and then hit enter. Don't hit enter first.
You don't want to be at a hyphen prompt when you type in EB, you want
the cursor to be flashing just after the period. (If the value shown
is NOT 74, just hit return, (don't change it to EB), and then at the
hyphen prompt type in Q to quit.)
You can check your work by typing in:
-ecs:37ce <hit enter>
This time it should respond with:
If so, so far so good. Now save it to the disk by hitting enter to get
to a hyphen prompt. Then type in W <hit enter> to write it to the
disk, and then Q <hit enter> to quit to DOS.
If this is what you have done, (please double check your CHKDSK.COM
with the above procedure to be sure), and it still gives you the
"INVALID MEDIA TYPE" error, then let me know and I'll see what we can
do. It may involve having you send me a bootable copy of your Zenith
DOS so we can investigate further. Let me know...
I redid my CHKDSK.COM using the debug program and it worked. I think
that I gorgot to place the ce after the 37 in the first line. I have
another question. I am having problems using my disk optimizer FASTTRAX
since this is a non standard drive. I guess that I have to make a drive
configuration file so FASTTRAX knows about the disk. Some of the
information I know but they asks the following which I am not real sure
OFFSET---# of physical sectors hidden from DOS in the dirst cylinder of
the DOS partition.
FATS-- The number of FAT on the disk. (probably two)
Starting SECTOR of the first FAT.
Number of sectors in the first FAT
Maximum # of root directory entries.
If you have the above information it would be helpful. I know the total
disk space by using CHIKDSK and i know the heads and sectors. Any help
wouold be appreciated.
I noticed that when I run my Wordprocessor on the large partition of the
HD that I get a lot of SECTOR not found errors when I am trying to save
a file that I have changed. I never had this problem before on the
other two drives that I was using under DOS 3.3. Is there something
that ONTRACK may have changed that makes the WP do this?. The file
seems to save ok if you save it the second time. This is probably not a
question for ONTRACK but since it only happened on the large drive I
thought that I would ask.
Although I have the Generic ONTRACK program was Disk Manager suppost to
be bundled with the Microscience drive?
Glad to hear the CHKDSK.COM patch worked on Zenith DOS 4.0.
As far as the other information you asked for... This information will
change from disk to disk, and install method to install method, so I
can't just tell you what it is for your disk. Any program worth
storing on a floppy will know that this information has always been
stored in the BPB, (BIOS parameter block), of the partition and will be
able to read that information by itself. That's what the BPB is for.
That's why it exists. A BPB is not something that Ontrack invented.
It has been there since DOS 2.0, and there is no excuse for a program
to be unaware of it. If your program is not bright enough to read the
information that it needs out of the BPB, then I would have serious
doubts about the rest of it's abilities and would suggest that you use
a different program, (Norton Utilities v4.5 (1-3-89 or later), PCtools
As for your word processor problems; it may not be compatible with DOS
4.x. You should check with the company that wrote it. Disk Manager
follows DOS 4.x formatting rules, so it shouldn't be the source of the
Ok, will check with the author of the word processor. I called
Bridgeway software today and they said that the program should work as
is with the hard drive. I had another strange problem crop up last
night which is probably a result of the word processor. when I got
chkdsk.com working I envoked the WP and like i said a couple of times
the work processor said "sector not found" but saved the program on the
second try. Later I did a CHKDSK and got a lot of chained files I
believe is what the error message said. After that I got all sorts of
corruped files CONFIG.SYS, AUTOEXEC.BAT, Etc that I had changed with the
WP so there is probably something wrong with the WP. Anyway thanks for
your help and the disk seems to be working OK. I did run into a few
probels with programs that would not run under 4.01 such as my CD-ROm
extension and my Extended Batch Language programs. But I got a new
version of the CDROM extension and that loads just fine now and I order
the Extended batch language. Talk to you later.
Oh by the way since the problems last night with the CHKDSK it will not
run tonight and just hangs when you enter the command CHKDSK so there is
a little something amiss again.
I have one more question. Was ONTRACK software suppost to be bundled
with the MICROSCIENCE drive that I purchased? None came with it and I
just happened to have the Generic version available.
It sounds like CHKDSK.COM got corrupted by the WP at the same time as
your AUTOEXEC.BAT & CONFIG.SYS files did. Sounds like you will need to
reprepare your partitions, copy your data back on from your backups,
patch CHKDSK again unless you saved a patched version of it, and don't
use the WP again until you figure out what is corrupting your disk.
Which WP program, (and which version), are you using anyway? Let me
know what you end up finding out.
As far as the Microscience OEM version of Disk Manager goes; I am not
sure of Microscience's policy on this. It differs from manufacturer to
manufacturer. There is such a thing as a Microscience only version of
Disk Manager, (current Microscience OEM version is v4.05), but I'm not
sure if they automatically ship it with all drives, or just some
drives, or offer it for optional purchase with their drives. What they
actually do with their OEM version of DM is up to each individual
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